96 3100 Grand Prix Turbo

[gectek]

TGPs were available from 89-91 IIRC. The turbo is too small for a 3100, but can be upgraded quite easily.

yah they were like a garrett t25 or something small like that...says they used a DSM config...dont tell anyone though, import parts on a domestic engine...oh nooozzz

[dru_sever]

3100 Grand "AM" turbo

OK... So, I have the 3100 grand AM with a custom turbo on it. TRYIN' to push 7 lbs with new 33# injectors.... ; ) It is probably abou the same as the GP in this forum...
With stock injectors ( I think 22 lb.) would run fine until about 4.5k RPMs...then run lean.. SO, I get the 33 lb. injectors off of "97 3800 S/C, that are plug and play and now I am lost, sorta.....
Do I go DOWN with the AFPR(fuel pressure) because they are BIGGER, or do I try to MATCH the injectors with the fuel pressure @ 33# ???
Here is what I have tried so far...I started the car up @ 40lbs. on the AFPR... SMOKIN' LIKE HELL!!!! RRRIIIIIICCCCCHHHHHHHHH! So, I go down to 35 lbs. still smokey, and still RRIICHh... SO, just for trial and error I turn the fuel pressure regulator all the way down, and back up 'till it starts idoling correctly, about 5#s(that is not a typo).... NO SMOKE!!! I'm getting somewhere
So, I thought.... test drove a few times, adjusting the FP everytime, a lil' up, a lil' up, a lil back down, lil' up(everywhere and anywhere around 5-20#s) Seems like anywhere above 20#'s or so it's too rich.... Should it be this tedious??? Is it supposed to be so touchy??? OR because I have bigger injectors, Am I going to have to TUNE??? Because my 96 GA, I can't buy a tuner for it, and it's gonna suck to have to put a different brain in this bastard; I think we all know what that is going to take... 96-98 GA's are SUPPOSED to be the same, but apperantly 97-98 have different brains, so they are the ones that can supply tuners for... F***IN' GMC!!!? WTF???
Does any1 have any ideas about why I have to be so low on the AFPR now???!?

[bszopi]

You need to tune the PCM for the injectors, not try to adjust for them via the FPR.

[dru_sever]

Damn, that's what I DIDN'T want to hear...

After driving it and further investigation, it threw a code at me. This code is not in the OBDII library.... P1460
I laughed my ass off when I found that out... And didn't know what else to think, except that the 96 brain is retarded... So, I guess I'ma haveta break down and buy the 97+brain, and harness... Will take more time, but is something I have not done yet, so should be fun. AND, buy the fucking expensive ass "programmer" for it. Pisses me off, makes me wanna get a 4# pressure release valve, weld that bastard to the top of the top plennum, and just be done with it.... I think that's what I'll do, The front right engine mount is shot now NEway, and I hope I didn't fuck up the axle... so....... I don't wanna fuck with the grande any more, set it up for 4# and just try to sell the shit... I'm gettin a 93 eddie bauer(hopefully), the bronco.... and will be in the woods now... so...... I just wanna sell the bastard.....gotta get it right first though......
Yep, I'm goin' with 4#'s... fuck it... some college student will buy it for sure.....

SO, how do you know about the injectors? I bet the P1406 has something to do with it It's gonna cost too much to get it further, and then there will be something else to do, and something after that, and I'm now unemployed and don't have the money.... so, I'm goin' boggin'!! PEACE!, dRU... thnx.....

[bszopi]

Is it 1460 or 1406? You mentioned both in your thread.

http://www.aboutautomobile.com/dtc/P1460 - Cooling Fan Control System
http://www.aboutautomobile.com/dtc/P1406 - EGR Valve Pintle Position Circuit

Not sure where you were looking to not find the code.

[dru_sever]

it was the 1406... I blocked off my EGR and have it unplugged too...NEwho, my OBDII hand-held came with a library and it wasn't in it... But, apperantly it does exist.....
Now though, I am stuck with the 33#ers because the people I bought them from will not take a return!!! ZZperformace is the place, is the place that I will NEVER buy from again... Customer service =

6 used "guranteed to work" 33# injectors out of 97+ grand prix supercharged engine for sale, contact me if you want them..... $100 shipped to your door!

[PCGUY112887]

oh yea im still trying to gather my parts up so it only takes a weekend to do the project... what are you using for the turbo parts.. tgp parts?? i at the minium ill just bolt all the stock parts on..

It's going to take you much longer than a weekend for this project. Trust me, you will need plenty of time you getting things installed/ensuring there are no leaks/working out problems/then quite a bit of time for tuning assuming everything else goes perfectly. Your going to need a second car to drive around for a while. A custom turbo project is the exact opposite than a weekend project.

You will definitely need larger injectors, #22 will not work nor will #28 if your pushing anything more than a few PSI. I am fairly close to maxing my injectors out and mine are ~#26's in my N/A 3500. I would suggest looking into what injectors Superdave is using, since if you use newer GTP injectors along many others... you will need to start splicing your injector harness with different clips to fit those injectors since a GTP's injectors will not work with your wiring harness. I believe it's the difference between Multitech I and II injectors.

You WILL have to do tuning, lots of it as well. You will also need a wideband if you ever hope to tune it correctly. If your totally new to tuning, I would not suggest DHP as there is practically 0 support and you will be stuck. HP Tuner is your best route if you don't know what your doing already, however it is indeed more expensive.

You will want to use a 97 Venture Van PCM as mentioned earlier in this thread, because your 96 PCM doesn't have many tables to be used.

Have you thought about your transmission? Your going to eat your stock transmission quickly with any decent amount of power output. Have you thought about how small that turbo is compared to the 3100? It was already working it's balls off to make PSI in the TGP's, now your just putting it on a motor that flows much more and will make more power. Your way out of your efficiency range with the T25 and even with your intercooler, the air coming off that turbo is going to be hot as balls.

Apparently the crossovers in TGP's are also known to always crack and need repair, so don't forget your going to need good looking crossover. Maybe a TGP guy can fill you in more on that.

There is a lot more to a turbo project than you think, and a lot more tuning than you think.

@dru_server, you HAVE to tune if you are adding a turbo to your motor. You just have to, there is no way around it or your setup is going to run like shit. You need a way to interface with the stock computer, or a totally standalone engine management system. With a way to tune, you can disable everything for your EGR so you don't get that code, disable the rear o2 as asked by the thread op earlier, and make your #33 injectors work like a charm. Since you have a 96, yes you CAN tune with both DHP and with HPTuners however a 97 PCM is suggested since it has more to it. You having a 96 = OBDII which is tunable. I don't know if a Venture Van PCM will swap straight into yours though. When I swapped my PCM into my GP, it was plug and play but that is apparently pure luck, the GA may be different.

[dru_sever]

I have looked into HP tuners, and they tell me that it won't work for the 96 GA... But, you're telling me that it WILL? How sure are you of this? Because I don't want to go puttin' a few hundred more bux into it and get something that dosn't work, and on top of that have something ELSE that I can't get my money back on... Are you saying that the 97-98 ECU's just have more sensors, or what? And that it reading the 96 brain will just think that it's the 97 ECU without those "sensors"? More tables?2 Less tables???

Oh, and I've never heard of DHP, I guess I'll do some more research...

DHP is discontinued...

L00K! l00K!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220341118103&sspagename=STRK%3AMESELX%3AIT&viewitem=

L(*)(*)K!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PCGUY112887]

The difference between the 96 PCM and 97 PCM is that there are just more tables in the 97 PCM. There are no more sensors or anything, they work basically the same way which is why I was able to swap a 97 PCM into my 96. The feds forced car makers to have OBD-II ready in all cars by 96, so this is probably why the 96's are still fully OBD-II but the PCM is a bit gimped.. maybe they didn't have enough time to test/finish everything before 96 so 97 got the rest of the programming. I believe HPTuners does not officially support the 96 due to the lack of tables, but the system is virtually the same and the wiring is virtually the same so if you can find someone that knows what 97 PCM will work in your GrandAm, then HPTuners will fully support you.

[dru_sever]

Do you know if the tables that I would need to tune the injectors are available on the 96???
I'm new to tuners, but a fast learner, so what tables would I need for the injectors??? And will it work without switching ECUs????
As for going in with a 97, from my research, it is going to take an effort that I am not willing to spend the money and time on(right now, times are shit). The wiring harness is different for 96 & 97-98... so I would have to purchase a brain$100 or so and not a hard install, wiring harness probably around $50 or so AND DO NOT LOOK FORWARD TO THAT!!! and the fucking $500 tuner... Not fealin' it... by the time all that gets done the transmission will be RIPPED out of the front end of the bastard and then the whole front end will need repairs, again time and money out the ying yang.... I think I'm goin' boggin'! Fuck this Grand Am shit! After boggin' I'ma just put a big fucking engine in a car and that'll get me more than that ol' fuckin' granny am 'll do for me anyday... -the excellent mileage it gets... I think that's the only reason I still have the ol' granny... last I checked (easy driving, no pedal to the metal bullshit) 38MPG... with v6 power! Can't really beat it, just tired of fucking with it... We'll see what happens with this eddie bauer.......