Bottom End Buildup...

[Black Mage]

Hey guys.

I've got my 3400 tore down to the block in the garage.

What bottom end parts are available for the 3400? I would like to build a bullet proof engine for big n2o or a turbo, or both.

What stores should I look at?

Is there a higher volume oil pump?

[geoffinbc]

Dont need to change anything for up to 400HP except forged pistons

[xxrollin]

Stores, none, parts manufactures, some...... You can leave it alone like the post above, or like you said, you want to build a bomb azz bottom end. If you have time and some spare cash on hand, you can usually get someone to make you a set of 4340 billet steel main caps. Some to look at are Callies, Childs and Albert, Oliver, and I think, not sure but Scat might make some also. The factory bottom end bolts are good qaulity bolts, damn near some ARP hardware. Should be good. As for rods, Crower has a sportsman econo forged rod rated at 650hp and 8000rpm's, should be plenty. These will need to be for a 2" rod journal, the older small journal rods. They will also need to be narrowed to .854" wide. If you have the book, it tells you to take off .086 from the side of the big end next to the crankshaft cheek in a V8 installation, but I told them .043 from both sides and the rod is in the center of the piston as it should. Working fine so far with one engine me and a friend built 1 1/2 years ago. Remember that they will have a .927 wrist pin bore so your pistons will need to be the same. The only problem I've had with crower is that they took like 3 months for the rods. Anyone should be able to do this. Pistons are from anyone you want to use. No one that I'm aware of keeps these in stock, but Venolia has treated me good and has had pistons shipped in less than 6 weeks. I sent them mine so expect to do the same from whoever you choose so they can get you what you need. Remeber to let them know about the .927 pin dia. you plan to use. Floating pins are a good choice also. Coatings a awsome, so get all your rod and main bearings coated, pistons are good to coat and dont forget some total seal rings. That will be a bomb proof bottom end. Just remember, it takes some time so dont freak......

[Black Mage]

Dont need to change anything for up to 400HP except forged pistons

I'm actually hoping to build a 7,200 rpm redline engine. I'm going to be spending a couple of grand on the heads and valvetrain to support it, don't want the bottom end to barf.

[phantom505]

You can get a forged crank from J body performance. I think you might be able to get rods too. I would provide a set of push rods to Eagle and have them make some. Pick your preferred company for pistons.

However, this is a bad time to do a 3400 build up. I would wait a while and see what comp comes out with. The are working in a billet with much higher lifts and better rocker ratios. I would wait a while if you can.

Are you trying to stay NA or are you using forced induction? Depending on that you might not want to go all the way to 7200 RPM. On my build I think 6600-7000 RPM might be adequate.

[Corpse]

"I'm actually hoping to build a 7,200 rpm redline engine" - That's not going to be any difficult task, the stock parts can almost safely make it that high.

I've my Gen II 2.8's to 7 grand many times (One time I pulled a little more, hehe, junk engine). But, due to tach inaccuracies, it probably wasn't that high in RPMs. But, you have to figure, they really don't like this too much.

I figured that since the rods and bottom end are balanced to 7K RPMs you gotta test it, right? lol. For some odd reason I did not notice much valve float.

But, back to the point. It depends on what you really want to do in those high RPMs. If you are planning to have the engine make most of it's power in the higher RPMs and run it for a long period of time at 7,200 RPMs, you will need some serious all-out-drag modifications done.

Especially if somehow you are cranking really high power, the crank won't want to see 400HP hitting it at over 7 grand. That is just a no-no. Might hold up, probably would not though. You can get an aftermarket crank from like 1 or 2 sources but, it is a LOT of money.

I think you would be best to focus around 5800-6500 RPMs. of course, more revolutions = more displaced air. Theoretically, a 173 CUI V6 at 7200 RPMs would suck in almost as much air as a 350 at 3600 so, RPM's are a good replacement for displacement. You must also remember, this is an OHV engine, it's made more for low end torque which, you will have none of when focusing for the high RPMs.

-Dave

[Black Mage]

I want power peak at around 6500, I realize i'm going to be sacrificing idle quality for a cam profile like the one I'm running but I really want to see what the 3400 can do with a good quality valve train at high rpms, and I'm in no rush to put it in at the cost of having a slow car... The 2200 in my sunfire is running strong.

[phantom505]

Take a look at my power curve with the turbo...

https://www.nmt.edu/~mcgill/The_PhantomWorks.html

At 6100 I'm barely dropping and that's on stock internals. I'll be doing my heads and cam next week. The cam is a mild regrind. Just enough to give me a little bit more lift and duration. I think they added about 4 degrees to the intake and 8 to the exhaust.

As far as I know I'm the first to actually put these on my car, however there might be a few before me. I had these heads made a over a year ago. I just didn't have the chance to put them in yet.

[Black Mage]

nice car phantom!

[phantom505]

Too bad I can't change my redline. I would love to see if the power drops any past 6100. I'm thinking I might be able to go to 6300-6400 with just the springs and that mild cam.

[Black Mage]

Hmm.. i wonder if that kit would fit in a j-body engine bay...

[xxrollin]

Well other than some serious rods and pistons and stuff, what are you planning to do about the computer?? I have my engine pretty much done and am running a .525/.525 lift cam with shorter duration on the exhaust, (cant find the cam card and its a Gen III with a hydro flat tappet, I know I know, dont ask), but the idle quality is not bad. We pulled the engine to 4000RPM's on the dyno at 4psi, (no intercooler yet and it was rigged on the factory manifold) and we were at 190hp already. Right now we got the engine in a 95GAGT and are working out a stepped header design for the manifold. By the way, running that thing at 4psi through the factory manifold sounded very wild, like deep as hell with the whine from the turbo. Either way, if someone does come out with a hydro roller, that'd work out better. I'd like to see the 3900 heads, does anyone know if they are putting bigger valves in these??

[Black Mage]

I'm either going with a DHP ecu or a tec3 depending on a few things. I don't know if i'll be getting the ICCU or going with an MSD ignition and a greddy or something for fuel if i go the DHP route

[geoffinbc]

Well other than some serious rods and pistons and stuff, what are you planning to do about the computer?? I have my engine pretty much done and am running a .525/.525 lift cam with shorter duration on the exhaust, (cant find the cam card and its a Gen III with a hydro flat tappet, I know I know, dont ask), but the idle quality is not bad. We pulled the engine to 4000RPM's on the dyno at 4psi, (no intercooler yet and it was rigged on the factory manifold) and we were at 190hp already. Right now we got the engine in a 95GAGT and are working out a stepped header design for the manifold. By the way, running that thing at 4psi through the factory manifold sounded very wild, like deep as hell with the whine from the turbo. Either way, if someone does come out with a hydro roller, that'd work out better. I'd like to see the 3900 heads, does anyone know if they are putting bigger valves in these??

You can order a roller cam from Crane and probabally Comp too. However you cannot run it if you are using SFI. It has to be MPFI or older. There is no cam position sensor.

[phantom505]

You can order a roller cam from Crane and probabally Comp too. However you cannot run it if you are using SFI. It has to be MPFI or older. There is no cam position sensor.

I guess you're not up to speed with what Comp is doing. They have a 3400 SFI and they are working on a billet and rockers. ETA is this Fall.