2.8 camaro???

[powerdoctor]

btw, whats up with the mega burn out in bfe ??? lmao.

Did you run it down the track/ road after that ?

I'm just trying to figure out the point there...

But that chevette sounds sweet as hell, I want to see some runs/ times from it too.

Nice work..

[Superdave]

It's just running rich in open loop, no biggie.. i need to lower the BPC a little and figure out why it commands a 9:1 AFR on a cold start.

Thanks though

[geoffinbc]

The old 2.8's fwd's and rwd's only had 2 oil ports, in the lifter galley's.
I smoked one engine in an s10, and one in a fiero due to this...

The newer fwd engines have 3, one that just feeds the crank "priority main" oiling.
I thought the newer rwd 3.4 had the 3 port oiling to it too .....

I have to show you what I am talking about though, you know me .... lmao

Heres the old 2.8 block and a new 3100 block, plus 3100 injector ohm and 2.8 injector ohm rating...

Here ya go guy's, straight from the garage floor.....

The 3.4L did NOT have priority main oiling. Only the Gen III engines had it. And the 3 oil passages were ABOVE the cam not two above and one below.

The non priority main system is actually a very adequate system and is was retained for all competition use back when the 660 was popular for midget cars. They rarely see failures. Only the small journal cranks were prone to failure. The 4.3L V6 although based on the Small Block also uses a non priority main feed system and it works just fine.

Also the crank still shares the same main oil galley as the cam on the new system. Each lifter bank has its own.

[powerdoctor]

This is we what are talking ( my picture below )about betwwen your 2.8, and the newer gen 3 engines ( I thought the 3.4 rwd had 3 too though, but...)
Since you probalbly arent going to put one ( a gen3 fwd ) in your ride, this won't matter, ecspecialy if the 3.4 is not a 3 oil passage engine....
But will give you the idea of how to prep a 2 passage rwd/ fwd engine oiling system for abuse...

The 3.4L did NOT have priority main oiling. Only the Gen III engines had it. And the 3 oil passages were ABOVE the cam not two above and one below.

The non priority main system is actually a very adequate system and is was retained for all competition use back when the 660 was popular for midget cars. They rarely see failures. Only the small journal cranks were prone to failure. The 4.3L V6 although based on the Small Block also uses a non priority main feed system and it works just fine.

Also the crank still shares the same main oil galley as the cam on the new system. Each lifter bank has its own.

The pictures I posted yesterday ( as well as this new one ) show there is 1 below and 2 above the crank in the gen3 3100 ect....
Thats a 99 malibu engine in the photo that shows 3 passages....

Reliable IF you twist the cam bearings to block off one oil passage...
Ball grind the oil passeges in the block....
Add a high volume pump....
Add a high pressure spring in oil pump....
Grind the upper main bearing caps behind the bearing ( like the gen 3 blocks ).
Drill the upper main bearing's for 3 more oiling holes... 2 before and 1 after the main hole...
Replace the oil pump drive rod with a hardened one....
Have nice tight lifter clearences...
This is what was done to those racing "midget car" engine's to make the oiling system "reliable" .... lol

Old chevy SB's had 3 above the crank ... the 4.3's too.
I don't recall ever seeing a 60 v6 with 3 above the cam ... pic's ??

Yes, the crank in the gen3's shares the oil with the cam, but the passages are way smaller to retrict flow to the cam/ lifter's and prioritze the crank/ rods ( reciprocating assembly ) as the "focus" for most of the oil volume.
The addition of the roller lifters/ rockers helps keep heat and the amount of oil needed for the valvetrain to a minimum and makes the "prioritized" oiling of the crank possible .... ( I wonder though if this is why the cam/ bearing's mess up in these engine's though, and the cam breaks/ explodes ... maybe the high volume pump/ oil cooler I have will stop this on my gen3 ????? )


You may be able to use a gen3 fwd in your rwd car, the starter location is the problem though.
For fiero's they have a starter relocation kit for rwd 3.4's so they can be put in the fwd drivetrain ....
Maybe you can reverse engineer one to do the oppisite and put a fwd in the rwd ...
Then you would be set .... seems's feasable to me .....

[ForcedFirebird]

You may be able to use a gen3 fwd in your rwd car, the starter location is the problem though.
For fiero's they have a starter relocation kit for rwd 3.4's so they can be put in the fwd drivetrain ....
Maybe you can reverse engineer one to do the oppisite and put a fwd in the rwd ...
Then you would be set .... seems's feasable to me .....

The starter is just one issue

I would love to put a FWD block in my car. There is a 4th generation Camaro with a 3400, but was not an easy feat. The starter stayed where it is (some bell housings have pockets on both sides). Then you have the oil pan with no step in it to cleear the frame, the oil filter location, throttle cable, accessory locations etc etc.

[powerdoctor]

The starter is just one issue

I would love to put a FWD block in my car. There is a 4th generation Camaro with a 3400, but was not an easy feat. The starter stayed where it is (some bell housings have pockets on both sides). Then you have the oil pan with no step in it to cleear the frame, the oil filter location, throttle cable, accessory locations etc etc.

You are one of my favorites here on this site, ya know that right? seriously.

If he uses the front cover from the 2.8 ( which he will need to plug one hole in the front for the fwd gen3 ) and uses the pan from the camaro 2.8 as well, that solves the pan issue and the accesory issue and the "k" frame issue, plus he could use CNCguy's roller conversion kit for the roller chain ..... hint hint, hurry that crap up CNCguy !!!!! lmao.

Yes he will need the factory oil filter relocation kit, or get an aftermarket one.

Yes the tb cable may cause some issues too ...

He's going to run across other issue's none of us are probably thinking of as well, but thats why this kind of swap is fun ....

[ForcedFirebird]

You are one of my favorites here on this site, ya know that right? seriously.

If he uses the front cover from the 2.8 ( which he will need to plug one hole in the front for the fwd gen3 ) and uses the pan from the camaro 2.8 as well, that solves the pan issue and the accesory issue and the "k" frame issue, plus he could use CNCguy's roller conversion kit for the roller chain ..... hint hint, hurry that crap up CNCguy !!!!! lmao.

Yes he will need the factory oil filter relocation kit, or get an aftermarket one.

Yes the tb cable may cause some issues too ...

He's going to run across other issue's none of us are probably thinking of as well, but thats why this kind of swap is fun ....

The bottom of both timing covers have the same radii, but have different pan-to-block bolt patterns, I looked

If the starter is moved, the Gen3 oil filter adapter can havce the pin removed and can be mounted in any position (the three bolt holes are symmetrical).

TB cable issue can be resolved by using a 95ish GM truck cable, it's the same connectors on the end, but is much longer - they are available from GM for $15, B U T - now you have the tranny cable to worry about on the earlier vac-0actuated transmission. Some of the FWD-hybrid peeps are using the "throttle box" that has the two cables going to it, then one cable going to the TB.

All this can be done, but we have no idea what kind of experience/equipment the OP has at their disposal.

Why do you like me? I call you out just as much as anybody else here does

[geoffinbc]

This is we what are talking ( my picture below )about betwwen your 2.8, and the newer gen 3 engines ( I thought the 3.4 rwd had 3 too though, but...)
Since you probalbly arent going to put one ( a gen3 fwd ) in your ride, this won't matter, ecspecialy if the 3.4 is not a 3 oil passage engine....
But will give you the idea of how to prep a 2 passage rwd/ fwd engine oiling system for abuse...






The pictures I posted yesterday ( as well as this new one ) show there is 1 below and 2 above the crank in the gen3 3100 ect....
Thats a 99 malibu engine in the photo that shows 3 passages....

Reliable IF you twist the cam bearings to block off one oil passage...
Ball grind the oil passeges in the block....
Add a high volume pump....
Add a high pressure spring in oil pump....
Grind the upper main bearing caps behind the bearing ( like the gen 3 blocks ).
Drill the upper main bearing's for 3 more oiling holes... 2 before and 1 after the main hole...
Replace the oil pump drive rod with a hardened one....
Have nice tight lifter clearences...
This is what was done to those racing "midget car" engine's to make the oiling system "reliable" .... lol

Old chevy SB's had 3 above the crank ... the 4.3's too.
I don't recall ever seeing a 60 v6 with 3 above the cam ... pic's ??

Yes, the crank in the gen3's shares the oil with the cam, but the passages are way smaller to retrict flow to the cam/ lifter's and prioritze the crank/ rods ( reciprocating assembly ) as the "focus" for most of the oil volume.
The addition of the roller lifters/ rockers helps keep heat and the amount of oil needed for the valvetrain to a minimum and makes the "prioritized" oiling of the crank possible .... ( I wonder though if this is why the cam/ bearing's mess up in these engine's though, and the cam breaks/ explodes ... maybe the high volume pump/ oil cooler I have will stop this on my gen3 ????? )

Sorry yes there is one gallery below and one above on production motors but only on the 3100 and later. The bowtie block has the 3 galleries above the cam. And no the 4.3L uses the same large and offset lifter oil galley on the left side of the block, just like the Gen I and II 60 Degree V6. I have the Chevy Power manual and I never knew it before either and figured that the 4.3L would be identical to the small block. However all the 4.3L Bow Tie blocks do have the 3 galleries above the cam.

[powerdoctor]

I'm not beyond drilling some new holes in the old 2.8 pan to make it fit the newer block's with the old 2.8 timing cover .....

I like you because even if we don't always agree, you never are rude or mean man, you have a sense of humor and you have lots of good views and point's.

Thats all ...

betterthanyou,

Thank you, I always thought they ( 4.3 ) were the same as the sbc's...
But the "bowties" are the ones.... Hmmm

I never built a 4.3 for racing, or really looked at one I guess...
I would of thought they were the same, thanx again...