2.8 camaro???

[dirtmod0]

i am new to this site and have a few questions.
i have a 87 camaro 2.8 liter and am in the process of getting ideas to do some engine work. can I put the alum. 3.1-3.4 liter heads and intake on my engine? what changes do i need to make if any.
I have been looking around for some different things but havent had much luck for the rwd engines.

[neo71665]

Do a search, the 3x00 swap is a pretty popular discussion on here. I'd first suggest trashing the 2.8 for a 3.4 then look into swapping out a 3500 top end.

[powerdoctor]

I would second his response on the 2.8 for a couple reasons...

1, the oiling system sucks bad, it has an oiling system were the oil hits the lifter valeys first and whats left over goes to the reciprocating assembly ( crank and rods )

2, the bore and stroke is just very small by todays standards.


I would start with the 3.4 rwd block as well ( 93 bird )

Heres some issue's with you using aluminum heads...

1, you will lose your distributor, it won't clear the LIM.
This means you will have to swap the whole pcm from an obd2 coil pack engine, or the 3.4 bird, and take your old pcm out.

2, your exhaust (manifolds) won't fit the 2.8/3.1/3.4/ ect... aluminum heads.

3, Because your bore and stroke is small on the 2.8, you may lose considerable compression and intake port velocity using the aluminum heads, unless you use the 2nd gen 2.8 aluminums, but you will still have the above issues, manifolds/ pcm ect...

4, fuel requirements, the 2.8 needed way less fuel than the bigger engines with bigger ports, so feeding the bigger engines will require injectors regulator ect... still you will want to change the f-pump for a bigger one for the 3.4 (87 iroc 5.7 mpfi in tank unit ) and an adjustable regulator/ pressure gauge.

I hope these few examples help you out ...

[ezrollin]

At least do the 3.4 swap that's 160 hp and you will still beable to drive while building the 3.4,then sell the 2.8 to recoup $$$.

[Superdave]

1, you will lose your distributor, it won't clear the LIM.
This means you will have to swap the whole pcm from an obd2 coil pack engine, or the 3.4 bird, and take your old pcm out.

2, your exhaust (manifolds) won't fit the 2.8/3.1/3.4/ ect... aluminum heads.

3, Because your bore and stroke is small on the 2.8, you may lose considerable compression and intake port velocity using the aluminum heads, unless you use the 2nd gen 2.8 aluminums, but you will still have the above issues, manifolds/ pcm ect...

4, fuel requirements, the 2.8 needed way less fuel than the bigger engines with bigger ports, so feeding the bigger engines will require injectors regulator ect... still you will want to change the f-pump for a bigger one for the 3.4 (87 iroc 5.7 mpfi in tank unit ) and an adjustable regulator/ pressure gauge.

I hope these few examples help you out ...

1. Correct HOWEVER swapping to an OBD1 engine harness from a FWD car (Cavalier/Beretta) is MUCH easier and cheaper to tune. It's been done lots of times.

2. Incorrect, they will bolt up if you oval the holes slightly.

3. completely incorrect, with the smaller combustion chamber of the aluminium heads he'll see 12.6:1 SCR with the .060 FWD headgasket.

4. He could just use the stock 3400/3100 injectors and a FPR from a pre-99 engine. that will run the injectors at 19lb/hr.. some quick adjustments in the chip will get him running just fine.

[powerdoctor]

1. Correct HOWEVER swapping to an OBD1 engine harness from a FWD car (Cavalier/Beretta) is MUCH easier and cheaper to tune. It's been done lots of times.

2. Incorrect, they will bolt up if you oval the holes slightly.

3. completely incorrect, with the smaller combustion chamber of the aluminium heads he'll see 12.6:1 SCR with the .060 FWD headgasket.

4. He could just use the stock 3400/3100 injectors and a FPR from a pre-99 engine. that will run the injectors at 19lb/hr.. some quick adjustments in the chip will get him running just fine.

2, Slightly? .... ummm

3, I thought the 2nd gen 2.8/ 3.1 heads were the same, it's been awhile, but I thought the fwd 2.8 had flat tops like the R.W.D 2.8's, and for the 3.1 they dished the piston to decrease the compression...?
I still would not recomend new 3rd gens for an old 2.8, I think they may be too " over ported " for that bore and stroke.

4, I would be concerned with the iroc 5.7 aftermarket in tank pump I was recomending for the 3.4, not being regulated by something adjustable, its a 225 lph pump, it may over power the stock reg.
I don't know any other old school camaro in tank pumps that would work.
I think the stock 2.8 pump is to small for the 3.4 with gen 3 aluminum heads, so thats why I recomended that.
The injectors would probably work... depending on what PCM he's using.
He will need to watch the impedence of the injector's between the obd1 and obd2 pcm's.
The 3100/ 3400 injectors are obd2, their impedence , if I'm not mistaken is 12.3/ 12.5 ohm's.
The obd1's , depending on year, were lower impedence I believe ...I'll go ohm test some of mine in a little while. ( unless anyone here already know's the impedence off the top of thier heads... guy's ? )

The impedence was why I recomended getting some after markets matched to the drive of whatever pcm he is using.
But I was waiting for his reply to see if I even needed to get into that stuff....

[Superdave]

Yah, it's about 1/16" to 1/8".. i used header flanges for a 2.8 Camaro on my old 3400

all the aluminium head FWD pushrod engines have dished pistons, the really old iron head 86 or so FWD ones, all RWD and the Fieros had the flat tops (or near flat tops) and the DOHC has domed pistons.

the in-tank pump for a MPFI 2.8 in the camaro is the same one that the Jbodies use, hundreds of people are using them behind stock 3400's to very modified 3400's nearing the 300 crank HP range. I do agree that a better pump wouldn't hurt.. I'm using one for a 91 TPI 350 Camaro in my Cavalier.

the stock MPFI 2.8 injectors are 12(ish) ohm, same as the newer M2's. I used them just fine on my 1227730 OBD1 computer several years ago.

If he went the OBD1 route there are a few chips allready made that should put him very close in tuning.

[ForcedFirebird]

87 has the '165 ECM IIRC, bery tunable and will work fine with an ICM.

They came in several cars...

http://www.thirdgen.org/ecminterchange

The RWD headers can be modified to work on FWD heads, the bolt pattern only spread 1/16th on the side (1/8" diameter).

The oiling systam didn't chang from 2.8 to 3.4.

The 2.8 block has no provisions fro a crank sensor, so external is the way to go. It might be easier/cheaper to use a 3.4 block depending on your resources and budget.

If you are going to pull a fuel pump from an F-body, don't go less than quality. It's a pain to do, it's better to burn a regulator than it is a pump. I have seen Walbro's do just fine with a stock regulator. In fact the Holley adjustable fits rigt in the stock location (from a TPI), but you will need the tamper-proof torx wrenches to replace it.

[powerdoctor]

The old 2.8's fwd's and rwd's only had 2 oil ports, in the lifter galley's.
I smoked one engine in an s10, and one in a fiero due to this...

The newer fwd engines have 3, one that just feeds the crank "priority main" oiling.
I thought the newer rwd 3.4 had the 3 port oiling to it too .....

I have to show you what I am talking about though, you know me .... lmao

Heres the old 2.8 block and a new 3100 block, plus 3100 injector ohm and 2.8 injector ohm rating...

Here ya go guy's, straight from the garage floor.....

[Superdave]

weird, i have a ton of 2.8 and 3.1 injectors and they're all 12 ohm.. either way, the higher ones should be fine as well, it's the way low ones that'll burn out the injector drivers.

[powerdoctor]

You are right, the very low one's will scortch the driver, I have had the wires catch on fire under the dash before...lmao.

But on the flip side, if the impedence is too high the injector won't lift right and the flow will suck....

Are you serious that a stock 2.8 pump will flow 300+ H.P., come on ... really?

And the old mpfi "corvette" adj reg by holley will fit right on as f/ firebird said, you just need the "tamper proof" torx and a lot of lube......those puppies will be stuck, lol.

[Superdave]

not 300+ but it'll flow plenty for 200 @ the crank..

"moonwell" is using a stock 3.1 MPFI pump and making about 300 @ the crank with a built 3400.

[powerdoctor]

Bye the way, your car sounds good, I am assuming when it warms up it does not run that rich, but still, it sounds good man, nice.

[Ortie666]

Bye the way, your car sounds good, I am assuming when it warms up it does not run that rich, but still, it sounds good man, nice.

Just wondeing, but isnt air more dence when its cold, making a rich car stoich?

[powerdoctor]

I was not trying to be mean... sorry if it came off that way, but that was alot of smoke out the pipes, I figured he just started it....

With all the work he has done I didn't think it was bad valves or something.

I really do think his ride is nice, I wan't to see it run.

Your chevette is tight too.