3500 fiero failure

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

A stuck-open injector, or a blown fuel-pressure regulator diaphragm would cause a massively rich condition and fuel in the oil due to leakage past the rings.
Fuel in the oil for whatever reason, will cause a rich condition, even if the fuel got in there by "mysterious" reasons not related to injectors or FPR. The fuel vaporizes out of the oil at operating temps and goes through the crankcase vent into the intake. Could be injectors leaking down, but would there be THAT much fuel staying in the rail after shutoff?
I had a customer's car where someone put fuel in the oil as an act of sabotage and the first symptom was a rich condition that progressed as the engine warmed up, and eventually would stall out.
Never give up. No matter how bad things seem; never give up. Sometimes no matter how meticulously you cross every "T" and dot every "i" something bad happens.
When I was about 18 I bought a car with a (supposedly) good 2.8. While I did nothing as complex as your setup; I did rebuild the carb, alt., buy new radiator, and spent several days getting the engine generally roadworthy.
I changed the oil, filled the new radiator, and warmed up the engine. It took a lot of water, but I finally was able to see the water circulate in the radiator.
Before I could get out of the shop yard, the engine seized up because most of the water went into the oil. The engine had frozen and had a cracked block inside the vee. Had to get another core to build. Installed a 3.1 crank and pistons and got better heads, though.
Later I installed a new-old-stock Rajay turbo. It ran for a long time then the turbo started to make a strange noise. Earlier that week I had installed headlight relays and drilled a hole in a bracket. The drill bit broke off and the hot tip of the bit landed on the cold-air intake. It melted through and sucked into the turbo. Runied the turbo and could not get it repaired. Had to get a modern turbo and re-fabricate the whole setup. New turbo is properly sized; water cooled ceramic bearing unit. It turned the car into a 300 HP terror.
Each time I had to take apart my motor, a way to improve it came available. All is well that ends well. Never give up!
Later,
David

[IsaacHayes]

Next motor get a wideband AFR gauge so you can monitor it. Plus you can tune it yourself really well that way. I would check the FPR though, and other things...

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

I'll second Isaac on the wideband unit - you'll do more in a day with it than in a year without it.

[Joseph Upson]

Sorry to hear that given what you've been through already. Now you have the opportunity to go with a 3900 if you dare, or the VVT 3500 with large bore and short stroke. All three of my engines came from AllPro, I only had reservations about the one 3500 they said had zero miles on it. It was very clean but the pistons had more carbon on them than what a zero miles engine should have I thought. Still all three appeared to be under 10k given the condition of the paint and exposed metal.

My curiousity is with the possibility your fuel system design or injectors might have contributed to the problem. The engine will not run if it's to rich so I can't see this happening while you are driving except where an injector is sticking open on one cylinder but even that would manifest as a miss. You would have to push a lot of fuel past the cylinders into the crank case to do what you have described and I don't see how you could have managed that given how poorly my engine ran with a rich tune on initial startup. Are you sure it wasn't sabbotaged because the video certainly didn't sound like an engine with any problems.


When I removed the 3900 crank to install the internal 7x trigger ring I noticed a good size scratch in one of the bearings that I thought was very unusual for an engine with only 3k on it suggesting maybe the assembly site was a little careless, otherwise the engine was clean on the inside and the bearings appeared as if they had just been installed.

[Joseph Upson]

A1A auto parts is located pretty much in the same area, Lakeland FL within about 10 miles of AllPro. I checked with A1A a little more than a year ago while hunting good prices for a 3900 and was told by them they would pull the pan on the engine upon purchasing because by some strange phenomena an engine can spin a bearing during the accident and I suspect they know from experience if they are willing to go through that kind of trouble so that's a possibility given that a new vehicle has to take a hard hit from the start to end up in the salvage yard.

[merlot566jka]

im sure it wasnt sabbotaged. the only thing i can imagine is that i had a leaking injector and bad rings. if an injector leaks it will do so as long as there is pressure in the rail, and i did have the fuel pump running several times for more than an hour looking for fuel leaks. it is possible that the fuel was just dripping out every time i primed the rails. and this didnt happen all of a sudden, this took a while before the problem happened, so maybe it was a cumlitive dilution. there was no metal in the oil when i changed it, but im sure now there are pieces of pistons and rings in there, and probably broke and bent valves in the top half.

but with that bad of an injector leak, wouldnt it hydrolock?

either way i need a new 3500



allpro said pull the engine and well pick it up and refund you your money and hung up on me. so i get $150 for all this...wtf. im going to call them back and argue for a new engine.

im almost willing to yank this one a part and rebuild it. its just the hassle involved....its such a new engine, everything will have to come from gm or be custom...damn why does this shit happen to me....this is the 5th engine in that fiero in less than 2 years!

bllaaaahhh

[ForcedFirebird]

^^^ That sucks. I bought one engine from them, and after finding out you got yours for that price (after they told me it was a mistake on the net), i haven't gone back. Found a new supplier with better parts, and much friendlier. They locked in the price I paid for the first one from them - it was a couple dollars cheaper then All-Pro charged, but the harnesses and plug wires etc are cut from them (and the last one was missing an exhaust mani).

Never can tell.

If you have a lawer, have them send All-Pro a letter and that usually does the trick, but if they are refunding your money - they are within their legal responsaibility to either refund your purchase price or give a replacement.

I wonder if it makes a difference if it's a shop or individual purchasing the engines. They asked me several times if I had a shop, and I continued to tell them that they are delivering to it, "Hello, McFly".

The other thing that turned me away from them is once they knew I was getting more of the same engine, they upped the price, and is now selling the 3400's, even, for over $700 - after they told me they had plenty of them. WTF?

I'm so sorry I ever told you about them. I have dealt with LKQ since, they have been better so far.

[bszopi]

Hey merlot, if you need anything from the shortblock, let me know and I may be willing to trade. I have an 04 3500 short block here with 1 bent rod, 1 broken rod, and a hole in the pan. But from what I've seen, everything else is in good condition. And I'm only ~3 hrs away? And best part, I'll trade you piece for piece, so you can get new(er?) parts for the price of gas (or shipping). Let me know...

[merlot566jka]

Hey merlot, if you need anything from the shortblock, let me know and I may be willing to trade. I have an 04 3500 short block here with 1 bent rod, 1 broken rod, and a hole in the pan. But from what I've seen, everything else is in good condition. And I'm only ~3 hrs away? And best part, I'll trade you piece for piece, so you can get new(er?) parts for the price of gas (or shipping). Let me know...

interesting, i may take you up on that....let me explore my options some here. the most important part right now is for me to get my financial situation all together, then ill worry about what to buy for the 3500

[Joseph Upson]

^^^ That sucks. I bought one engine from them, and after finding out you got yours for that price (after they told me it was a mistake on the net), i haven't gone back. Found a new supplier with better parts, and much friendlier. They locked in the price I paid for the first one from them - it was a couple dollars cheaper then All-Pro charged, but the harnesses and plug wires etc are cut from them (and the last one was missing an exhaust mani).

Never can tell.

If you have a lawer, have them send All-Pro a letter and that usually does the trick, but if they are refunding your money - they are within their legal responsaibility to either refund your purchase price or give a replacement.

I wonder if it makes a difference if it's a shop or individual purchasing the engines. They asked me several times if I had a shop, and I continued to tell them that they are delivering to it, "Hello, McFly".

The other thing that turned me away from them is once they knew I was getting more of the same engine, they upped the price, and is now selling the 3400's, even, for over $700 - after they told me they had plenty of them. WTF?

I'm so sorry I ever told you about them. I have dealt with LKQ since, they have been better so far.

The reason they ask if it's a shop is because they will not knowingly deliver to a private/home address. I met the delivery truck at a sears auto parking lot to get the 3900. The other two engines I picked up in person and the price fluctuation does tend to vary with demand and can go either way. The newer the engine the more likely you will get a good deal because demand for it is low, case in point;

First 3500 with 7k miles $350
Second 3500 with 0k miles $299 within about a month of purchasing the first.
2007 3900 with 3k miles $850

Sometimes they need to move stock and that's when the deals come through.

Fair is fair, if the engine was destroyed as a result of a modification made to it after purchase you can't fault them for it. If they're at least willing to give a refund without question that's at least an effort. I wish everyone else had as good a service as I have had with them.

[ForcedFirebird]

Also have good rods/pistons ,and oil pan munus one boss here if someone needs them (also would trade). Sounds like you both still need a crank, though.

Actually pay $5 to cover packing material and pay shipping - you guys can have any of it. The bearings are like brand-new on the rods and all the rings look real good, just has that same nasty carbon I have seen on the 3500's with low miles.

[bszopi]

I have a crank, if you were talking to me...

[ForcedFirebird]

The reason they ask if it's a shop is because they will not knowingly deliver to a private/home address. I met the delivery truck at a sears auto parking lot to get the 3900. The other two engines I picked up in person and the price fluctuation does tend to vary with demand and can go either way. The newer the engine the more likely you will get a good deal because demand for it is low, case in point;

First 3500 with 7k miles $350
Second 3500 with 0k miles $299 within about a month of purchasing the first.
2007 3900 with 3k miles $850

Sometimes they need to move stock and that's when the deals come through.

Fair is fair, if the engine was destroyed as a result of a modification made to it after purchase you can't fault them for it. If they're at least willing to give a refund without question that's at least an effort. I wish everyone else had as good a service as I have had with them.

With those prices, it seems that the 3900 is in higher demand.

Either way, I called before I told Merlot about them, and they said they had no such motor for $150, only to see him post about it later. There was also broken parts on mine, but none I needed and they did warn me about one. They also called back after my order for 2 engines and told me one was stolen when they went to pull it (and there was no more 3500's, but could sell me a 3400 for 2x the price) *but* then a few days later, another member here had picked it up from the yard and paid less then the quote given to me.

Both the other buyers were more then likely a one time deal, and I was looking for a business relationship. Just not the way I like to do business. Not to say that's how all customers are treated, but from this point of view, that's what happened.

A local friend, also a shop owner, has been dealing with them for years and hasn't had a problem. They try to resolve a situation as far as quality, and will generally back their stuff up, but seemed to not want my business.

[ForcedFirebird]

I have a crank, if you were talking to me...

It survived the broken rod, or you got another one?

[bszopi]

Yeah, it survived.