It's Decision Time

[Sidewinder]

Alrighty, I need to make a final decision on what I am doing for performance and i wanted advice. My options are:

- Modding the 3100
- Swapping in a 3500

1) Modding the 3100: I know that 240 horse should be attainable with this engine, and I already have a plan laid out for modding this (3400 top swap for starters). The advantage of this way is that I do not have the outright cost of buying the engine and can start modding it right away. I also don't have to deal with labour swapping the engine and any potential problems because of the swap.

2) Swapping a 3500: I found one of these for $750 with 9000 miles, and I'm not sure how hard the swap would be. I've never done an engine swap before. The cost of the engine and anything else I need for the swap will also be all I can afford. Once it's in i won't be able to do anything else to it for awhile. I'm wary of doing this, because I'm not sure if I have enough skill to do so. This will also be more expensive than modding the 3100.

Let me know what you think. This is all now hindering on me being able to tune the car, if I can't tune it I'm going to have to find something else.

[1988GTU]

I say to save up until you know for sure you can complete a 3500 swap with goodies. Don't forget to tune it. You're in luck with already having a 96 car.
The small port 3100 is like the 3.1 now, prehistoric. Although if you don't care, then mod the hell out of the lil 3100. With doing a full swap, you gain teh lower miles and better power. Doing just heads up will add power, but your lower end is still untouched and might not like it.
What type of power are you looking for? N/A or F/I?

[Sidewinder]

N/A right now, roughly 240HP for the time being. I still haven't decided whether I'm doing forced induction or not. I was thinking about trying to find a 3.1 turbo to cannibalize and see if I couldn't rig that up. I kinda want that small turbo feeding the engine all the time.

That aside though, I was reading the clubgp forums, and it seems that DHP was possibly just sourcing the software and modifying it slighly from here;

http://www.avt-hq.com/841_photos.htm

http://www.avt-hq.com/price.htm#AVT-841

Anyone have any idea on this, or of anything else I can use to tune with?

Anyway...I'm going the hell to bed.

[1988GTU]

I would not use the turbo from a TGP. It's just too small for the 3100.
You can check out http://www.hptuners.com/about.php, not very familiar with them though.

[IsaacHayes]

If you can find a DHP still for sale or used then that's a good way to go still. Just no updates but it works good enough as is to tune. You can swap in a 97 PCM with more tables open for tuning. I highly suggest you check out PCGUY's sticky thread about his 3500 swap. It will apply pretty much directly to you.

The 3500 is 200hp stock, so if you have a good exhaust, get the headers like he did, and throw in a cam you should be close to 240hp. Other wise it's going to take A LOT to get a 3100 up there, and more money. The 3100 is .4l lacking in displacement too.

[PCGUY112887]

Yeap check out my thread!

The 3500 is great however there is much more work involved, along with extra costs of adapters and such to make the engine work. You'll need a good ammount of stuff (all sensors and accessories) off the 3100 for the 3500. Will also need a different throttle body, CPS wheel to go on the crank (from the store here), etc etc etc. It's all in the thread.

Personally if your looking for an easier time, I would go with a newer 3400. It would be cheaper and easier, just not quite as cool in the long run

[Sidewinder]

Well, I forgot to mention further into my plans if I was to stay with the 3100. I Was going to start of with a 3400 top swap. Eventually get that ported, with a bigger throttle body. Once that is done I was going to get headers and a full exhaust done. Lastly I was probably going to pull the engine and switch of the 3100 block with a 3400 block. So by the time I'm done I'll basically have a 3400 swap, but done in stages.

The issue I have with the 3500 swap is the length of time it will take to get into the car. I will need to buy the engine, get all the parts I need. While its out I figured I could port everything. After that I would need to get the pcm tuned to accept it and work out bugs. I would also probably need a new transmission to go with it, and that is the biggest thing holding me back atm.

I don't exactly have the cash right now and in the future to get the new engine, test it, work out the bugs and get a new tranny all before it goes in. It would probably be 2 or 3 years before I would actually be able to get the engine in, unless I can get more cash for it or another job like I've been planning too. I am really considering going the 3500 route though, it'll probably give my car another 10 years, and it gets better gas mileage than the 3100 I have atm.

[bszopi]

Why do you think you need a new tranny?

[Sidewinder]

Because my tranny has 165000 miles on it, and I don't think shunting more than 200 horse through a 4t60e is a good idea.

What do you guys think of Milzy's PCMs?

[IsaacHayes]

Tune your own. Seriously. Nab a cheap used DHP (out of production) download all the software and you're good to go modding any PCM they support that you own. Usually those pre-done PCM's from companies just throw a ton of spark advance and you end up with knock retard. Not good for a custom engine.

You could just get a 3400 and build it up and then swap it in instead of the 3500. High compression pistons, cam, etc. Then tune the sucker. Or camaro 3.4 pistons 3500 heads would also give you high compression and with a cam and port work would be hot with headers too etc

[19Cutlass94]

I wouldnt go past a 10.5:1 for a DD for a CR. I dont know what you consider high compression, but I assure you, you do not wanna be running unleaded 110 or similar in a DD. You wanna be using 93. I would keep the compression around stock. You could probably mill the heads .010" to give you a little higher.


Really, the question here is how much do you plan on spending? These things eat up alot of money once you really get into it. Figure out what your budget will be and plan your mods accordingly.

[IsaacHayes]

Well with a hot cam compression won't be too bad. Stock compression runs on 87. So you can go some what higher. The camaro pistons and 3500 heads might be too much I think that's 11 or 11.5 actually. So custom pistons would likely be required if you wanted to change the compression and then cost goes up with that. So changing the compression may not be a cost effective option.

[Sidewinder]

Well, maybe a 3500 top swapped 3400 wouldn't be a bad way to go.

I have a budget of around $1000 hopefully for this summer to spend on performance. The 3400 top swap is well within that budget, and it is more appealing than doing a swap because I can install it whenever I want and not have to worry about going overbudget or the labour and throuble shooting involved with a swap.

I dunno, I just don't think I really have to money to spend on a swap of any kind, I should probably look around and get pricing on it. For me it just looks like the easiest route for me to go is to stick with the 3100, although I would like to do a swap...

[MY91GT(Z)]

i picked up 3400 for 400 ( they should be in between 400-600 w/ fairly low mileage)and u may be able to score 3500 t.e. for around 300 and by
doin that would leave lil bit to acct for misc. spending for the swap & and give u better start when u begin to mod in the future and 3400 is pretty much a direct swap from any 3100 other than the mounts that maybe different and cpl sensors just check out 3400swap.com and u'll see

[silvergtjrad]

If you are only able to afford $1k, maybe modifying cars isnt a hobby for you. Im assuming you are fairly young (16-24),may only work part time, and are likely going to school of some sort. Scraping together your last pennies to spend on an older, high mileage car isnt too wise. If my assumptions are correct, Id limit myself to a couple of small mods.