3500 top-end in 95 f-body

[Driver_10]

Boy...its been a while since I wrote to this forum.... but anyway (ahem)


I have a 95 camaro with a 99 grand-am 3400 full engine swap w/ custom motor mounts. I would like to consider using the 3500 heads + intake for my next engine build-up. The thing that I need to know is how much taller is the 3500 plenum than the 3400 type.

I know that most people reading this will tell me that the 3500 intake is too big for the forth gen camaro, but understand that Im using custom mounts.

I have about 1"1/2 -2"inch worth of clearance as is. Here is a pic of the install.

http://s141.photobucket.com/albums/r48/Driver_10/?action=view&current=DSCI0711.jpg

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[hookdonspeed]

love the turbo setup, gives me some ideas for when i do mine

[ForcedFirebird]

I guess this IS the same Driver 10...

I would like to know how that schwitzer turbo works for you, is it from a deisel?

I can't give you an answer, I am in the process of purchasing a 3500 top end for a 3.4, but don't have it yet to compare. I can tell you, though that the 3400 top end is shorter than the MPFI/iron head combo off the 2.8/3.1 motors...

http://60degreev6.com/showthread.php?t=36695

Glad to see you are already upgrading while I'm just trying to get things back together, lol.

[Driver_10]

the turbo is a borgwarner/switzer "extended-tip" S-256 turbo. It has a stainless t3 housing w/ .67 A.R and a p-trim turbine. It should produce excellent low rpm/ high load response and good top-end.

The turbo was built by Bullseye power. It cost me $1,250.

[ForcedFirebird]

I put a deposit on the 3500 uper end, if I get it before someone answers your question, I will gladly take pics/measurements for you. I need to complete the sale of my turbo pipes to pay for them, so I guess I have a complete extra 3400 upper . I thought I was going to stay with a 3.1, but got a good deal on a 3.4 and will be able to take advantage of the fact that the block is setup for DIS (instead of MORE fabrication,lol).

[Superdave]

from the LIM ports up it's right around 2.5" high and 3" tall right where the bung for the brake booster line is...

[Driver_10]

Im going to go and measure my stock plenum and compare the two. Ive got about 1' 1/2- 2" of space to play with under the cowl. Ill build a jig tommorow and see if I have the room for a 3- 3' 1/2 intake.

The mounts that I fabbed accomodate a 1"-1' 1/2 inch motor drop for the 3400. If it works, then Ill plan on using a 3500 topend/ 3400 lower "hybrid" for my next engine build.

[ForcedFirebird]

Food for thought, the 3500 has larger chambers thats going to lower your compression. Not necessarily a bad thin on a boosted motor, but take that into consideration.

[Driver_10]

Food for thought, the 3500 has larger chambers thats going to lower your compression. Not necessarily a bad thin on a boosted motor, but take that into consideration.

Really?! I always thought that the 3500 had smaller chambers.... I guess Id better bone up no my research.

That would be utterly kick-ass. Im still not sure if I have the clearance for the top end though. But still, (shivvver) oh... Im getting goose-bumps thinking about it.

[ForcedFirebird]

That would be utterly kick-ass. Im still not sure if I have the clearance for the top end though. But still, (shivvver) oh... Im getting goose-bumps thinking about it.

I know the feeling, I got the 3400 top finally complete, and I saw an ad for a 3500 top end complete (he thinks he even has the fuel rail). I got those same shivers . I would have been shopping for a 3500 top in the first place, but I was going to keep the 3.1 block and fab a DIS until I found a 3.4 shortblock for $150 (almost pooped my pants on that one) even though it has 176K on it. With a refresh and the 3500 top, I should be in good shape - especially with a MegaSquirt unit running the show.

[Camaro95V6]

There's a 3500 top end for sale on this site's store. It has 3500 heads and LIM, and a 3400 UIM. I'm debating if I want to go that route.

[Driver_10]

There's a 3500 top end for sale on this site's store. I has 3500 heads and LIM, and a 3400 UIM. I'm debating if I want to go that route.

If it is resonably affordable, Id modify a 3500 motor and use my retrofit motor mounts for installation. (assuming the block mounts similar to a 3400)

Hey here's a question, are the bosses on a 3400 and a 3500 any different? What about the crank sensor boss. Im considering having the timing ring swaped out for a 7x wheel. It be nice to know before hand whether or not I could even use an older style crank sensor before I throw down the money.

I know that there is an external sensor available through the 60store, but Id rather keep it simple if do-able.

[SappySE107]

I believe TCE made a spacer for the 7x ring. How do you set it though? I haven't figured out how to get the stock ring back on as I don't see a timing mark to line it up with. I will be using the external crank trigger, hopefully on a new timing chain cover like the RWD guys have. I really like the idea of the electric waterpump for a project car. TCE is also working on some sort of universal engine mount. Since you want to do an F-body, there are already some parts available for you. I am not sure if its F body specific or if its compatible yet. Ill have to get Marc to say something since he knows all about it and I know very little on the RWD stuff.

The stage 1 is a 3400 upper setup. If you want a boost setup worth the effort, you want to use the 3500 upper. If you already have 3400 stuff, port that a lot (boost porting is what I call it since velocity is not important), and use the 3400 metal lower gaskets and the 3500 upper metal gaskets.

If you want to get the upgraded combustion chamber design, intake manifold and port design, excellent flow, and lighter valves, use the 3500 top end.

The 3400 bottom end will take a lot of abuse. The 3500 has a 1.78:1 rod stroke ratio vs 1.72 for the 3400. Close, considering one source of knowledge when it comes to engine building says 1.75:1 is the best to have. The other great source of knowledge says the higher the better. Id take the 1.78:1, since I have a 3500 on the stand here that is my project motor:P Plus you get forged steel crank, good rods but you can't cut the cap and resize them. Hypereutectic pistons as well. If you are going forged, wiseco as made 9:1 compression 3500 pistons with a .020 overbore (probably no probably to get any size). I know they have made 9 and 9.5:1 for the 3400 as well.

The 3500 head is about 4 cc larger than the 3400 stock. It also outflows the stock 3400 head considerable due to the chamber design, port height, and casting quality. Boost ported 3400 still flows more than any 3500 setup I have flowed, but I am still waiting for the shop to do the seats for the larger valves. If you want to get serious about it, you can turn either setup into a bad ass boost motor. Either way, you want the 3500 plenum.

[Driver_10]

I believe TCE made a spacer for the 7x ring. How do you set it though? I haven't figured out how to get the stock ring back on as I don't see a timing mark to line it up with. I will be using the external crank trigger, hopefully on a new timing chain cover like the RWD guys have. I really like the idea of the electric waterpump for a project car. TCE is also working on some sort of universal engine mount. Since you want to do an F-body, there are already some parts available for you. I am not sure if its F body specific or if its compatible yet. Ill have to get Marc to say something since he knows all about it and I know very little on the RWD stuff.

The f-body 3.4l "iron head" mount-bosses are different from the 3x00 series motors. They are almost 1.6 inches closer to the front of the block and are bosses differently as well. The first set of mounts that I made were a failure. The passenger side mount bolted on to the 3400 block "as-is" and I simply modified the driver side mount to fit the different bosses. When I tried to install the motor it was colliding with the firewall.

I found a way to correct the mounting possition. I used the passenger side mount and simply moved the mount position foward by staggering the mount rearward and bolting only 2 of the bolts onto the block. This was adaquate to move the engine forwards enough to clear the firewall. Once this was done I fabbed up a 3/8 plate to fit across the mounting bosses and clear the oil filter boss. I then fabbed the lower portion of the mount at the k-member and simply cut a piece of 3/8 "wall thick" 1.5 squar tubing to fill the gap and complete the mount.

It worked out beautifully.

[Camaro95V6]

Question: If I was to buy the 3500 top end and select the FI porting option, would it be ok to run my engine NA until I could afford a turbo kit, or should I just go ahead and wait until I can afford both the top end and turbo kit?