Need HP on a 3.1 FWD..!!!

[DirtRacer]

Hello. Need info. What would be the first steps to get more HP from a 3.1 1992 in a J-Body. Motor has to look stock and motor has to run on stock gas.!

Already bolt on a 1.6 roller rocker. we get some gain but not enough. Have a little cam with 430 lift instead of the stock cam. Is it worth the work to put it in??

Also try some after market chip (stage 1 and 2). Stage 1 ok but stage 2 not running very well with the stock motor..

... also... don t have a unlimited budget..

Waiting for your answers!!!

Thanks..

[SappySE107]

What cam are you using? Can you do porting? Can you raise compression? What is your budget? I need some guidelines. I have a chip in the store here that will beat stage 1 and 2 but I need more details. I can recommend other stuff as well but budget is important. Can you use an underdrive pulley? How about a crank scraper? Cold air intake? Custom made headers? How stock does it have to look?

[DirtRacer]

Parts used!!

Have a Clevite 2291784 (420 lift int. 443 exh. lift and 204 dur.) the cam is not installed yet. Only the roller rocker (1,6 ratio) and aluminium crank pulley (but same dimensions as OEM). For the chip, hyper chip stage 1 and /or 2)

Everything has to be OEM... We need modifications that can't be seen with fast visual inspection. We can make a match porting as long as it is not to visible.

For underdrive pulleys, it has to look preety stock..

Headers?? Would be difficult to prove that it is stock OEM

Crank scraper??? What is that??

Cold air intake (Already remove the system that warms up the throttle body and put a 180 deg F. Thermostat..)

Would it be a nice gain with a wider throttle body, a lighter flywheel (manual stock one that has been machined or an aluminium one)

For compression, can we just have the heads machined and cut a little bit??

Would it be a nice gain juste with a new set of Gen 2 ported heads with all the rest pretty stock..

Budget: Maybe a 1K$ for beginning... (that's why we need the best bang for the bucks parts..

thanks..

[SappySE107]

Crank scraper is on the store as well. It goes on your main caps. Heck, if I were you, id get the 3.4 DOHC main bolts and use the windage tray from it as well as a crank scraper. The windage tray keeps the wind caused by the crank from sloshing the oil. The scraper helps to get the excess oil off the crank and also helps with the windage issue. Its been proven on other motors and for 50 bucks you really can't go wrong. Visual inspection would have to include pulling the oil pan to see that one.

hypertech is junk.

Gen 2 heads ported would really need to be reshaped on the exhaust side to be kick ass. Less can be done to get good power, but if you can swap to a newer 3.1 motor (it will look stock, just from a newer car), then that would be the ideal way to go. Not sure how much a tech would know about the different 3.1 motors.

Machining the heads a little won't raise compression much. Not worth doing for the cost of the head bolts and gaskets. If you plan to remove your heads a few times, you should get head studs. Otherwise its overkill for a stock appearing gen 2 60V6.

Throttle body would have to be bored out stocker. Mantapart will bend you over on that so try a local shop first on that. You would have to open up the upper to match any larger throttle body.

[DirtRacer]

What about 3.4??

Can we go with a 3400?? I know that the intake plenum is not identical so it would be easy to know it's not the OEM for that model year. Can i use intake manifold from Gen2 and put it on a 3400??

Is the Cam i was suppose to use is good enough or another waste of time and money??

Waiting for any ideas, combos, to make it work strongly..

Thanks

[CNCguy]

Since your name is dirtracer, I am guessing that you run mini stock on a 1/4 dirt track.

Earlier this year, I was at the local track for the first time in a few years and saw that mini stocks had switched to front wheel drive cars. It was a matter of time since the supply of RWD mini cars are dwindling down. Been wondering how long it would be before these guys started coming in here. Glad to see you here.

As Ben said, the top end of that engine sucks for top end power and the newer engines are much better. If rules say you can't swap to a newer engine and you aren't too far along with that car, perhaps you could swap to a newer car that uses top better top end. More work and expense, yes, but in the end you will have more power and have more potential. Or just keep in mind when you build your next car.

[DirtRacer]

Way to go..

We are racing 1/2 mile track. So high rev racing here.

Also absolutely need manual trans. So no many choice in newer model with a man. Trans. Weight is also a big factor.. Less weight, faster run out of the curve.. (way to win races!!!)

Also running Beretta Gt with 3.1.

Would a 3100 newer model an easy swap. 1995-1999 or 2000+ a better choice? We are open to almost anything.. But.. No DOHC... not permitted..

[Tdunk]

Umm you can use the geteg or something like that manual from a cavalier ive heard theyve had some success. Also i have a 2001 3100 and i think it swaps in relatively easily but the year... i think thats obd 1 i'm not sure if they used a MAF then and the newer 2000+ 3100 SFI use maf. Someone else would have to tell you that, but if you do get a 2000+ 3100 there are a bunch of things you can do for HP gains. Cold Air Intake, Ported and Polished UIM, LIM, and 65mm TB. Then a new cam regrind from Ben. Also make sure you have a good tuner this still will require some good tuning to run properly. You could do all that for around 800. Then a Cat Back exhaust if you have the money. I'm not an expert on this tho.

[bszopi]

Umm you can use the geteg or something like that manual from a cavalier ive heard theyve had some success. Also i have a 2001 3100 and i think it swaps in relatively easily but the year... i think thats obd 1 i'm not sure if they used a MAF then and the newer 2000+ 3100 SFI use maf. Someone else would have to tell you that, but if you do get a 2000+ 3100 there are a bunch of things you can do for HP gains. Cold Air Intake, Ported and Polished UIM, LIM, and 65mm TB. Then a new cam regrind from Ben. Also make sure you have a good tuner this still will require some good tuning to run properly. You could do all that for around 800. Then a Cat Back exhaust if you have the money. I'm not an expert on this tho.

Did you read anything in this thread?!?! First, the car is a 92 J-body (ie, Cavalier, Sunbird), and is already a manual. So there is no manual swap required. Second, he has to keep the engine looking stock (for that year), so a 2000+ 3100 wouldn't work, nor would any of the components from it. And a 65mm TB is far from looking stock as well...

[RedBird]

gen 2 top end, ported to hell, with 3400 shortblock with reground cam and 3400 exhaust manifolds.....

[Superdave]

gen 2 top end, ported to hell, with 3400 shortblock with reground cam and 3400 exhaust manifolds.....

I'd go 1 step further...

2000+ model year 3100 SFI bottom end, swap over to a 2.8 MPFI crank and 2.8 RWD pistons. Stick in a healthy reground roller cam (around .480 lift @ valve) then use some ported out 3.1 Gen2 heads, extrude honed Gen2 LIM and plenum. Bored TB and then swap over to a set of over-the-tranny 3500 exhaust manifolds.

It'll love the high RPM"s, look stock.. and you're looking at an honest 50-60 HP gain.

[DirtRacer]

It's getting really interesting..

WOW...

I really found in this site what i was looking for. You really know your stuff.!!
Is there any differences in the bottom end from an old 3.1 and a new 3100 SFI. Can we use a newer SFI motor and put a ported GEN2 plenum on it. That way, it would look original?? Can we also use a 3400 instead of a 3100 without any problems??!!

What about Gen2 short bloc, with Gen 3 heads, Ported Gen2 intake manifolds and TB and man. exhaust from a 3400 or 3500?? A good cam with it also!!

Waiting for your ideas... Can't wait for the snow the melt!!!!!!!

[Superdave]

WOW...

I really found in this site what i was looking for. You really know your stuff.!!
Is there any differences in the bottom end from an old 3.1 and a new 3100 SFI. Can we use a newer SFI motor and put a ported GEN2 plenum on it. That way, it would look original?? Can we also use a 3400 instead of a 3100 without any problems??!!

What about Gen2 short bloc, with Gen 3 heads, Ported Gen2 intake manifolds and TB and man. exhaust from a 3400 or 3500?? A good cam with it also!!

Waiting for your ideas... Can't wait for the snow the melt!!!!!!!

It may be possible to use the 3100/3400 heads with the older gen2 LIM. The port shape is a little different but i bet if you got creative you could do it...

The 3.1 heads aren't that bad.. the lower intake manifold is the problem, the runners are tiny..

I'd go witha gen3 block, the roller cam and better oiling is well worth it.


So, If they looked in your engine bay and saw this (w/o the 3400 SFI on the plenum) do you think they'd know anything was up?

[Tdunk]

define old better..... if he got a 3100 with alot of miles then how would they know the real difference? The 3100's still have a 3100 on the UIM and he could just ask ben to have a 3100 UIM without the SFI on it. If he wants it to look old then get an engine with plenty of miles on it and clean the interior of the engine up a bit to free up any HP losses from the age.... I dont see any problem with this? Srry about rwd i mis intrepreted what he origionally wanted.

[DirtRacer]

OPtionssssssssss!!

I think i'm now gonna build 2 versions. One for the CAV. and the other one for the spare car (beretta Gt ..)

First one will get the new cam (440lift) with the 1.6 roller rocker. Ported heads (if i can finally get in touch with SHAUN...) Ported UIM and LIM. also put 3400 exhaust man. Everything with the GEN2 stuff.. (Also have the ligntweight crank pulley, chip and 180 F thermostat.). Maybe a lightweight flywheel if i found one, as a bored TB.

For the 2nd, i really like the idea from Super Dave (I think..)3400, with 2.8 RWD piston and ported everything GEN2 Stuff. Maybe the 2.8 crank too... But we really need the extra punch in exit of the turn from the 3.1 crank.
For this one, we will continue to look at some extra mod...

thanks