Want to Turbo my 3400, need help/opinions

[AaronGTR]

Dude I have talked to people that have boosted their 3400 aawrongs, and they needed stiffer springs. But then again they weren't running crappy magnuson kits on 9 psi only making a measly 230 whp. They were making over 300. So thats probably why you have gotten away with stock springs. You just aren't making any power. Your setup is horrible.

To answer the question. Get the ls6 springs. You will need them. So get them and be done with it.

Now aawrong, take your slow poser car back to slowsville. Thanks

Oh yea, didnt' the Berretta pace car have a custom stroke crankshaft? Oh thats right you were proven wrong on that. By me.

You're one to talk about wrong... you're wrong all the time. I'm making more than 230whp. I WAS (key word was) making 235whp almost three years ago untuned with maxed out stock injectors and a stock cam, and running the same times with a trans with burned out clutch plates... and guess what, I was still faster than you are now. I guess they say BS walks... so put up or shut up!

Everything with my fuel and engine management has changed since then and once I'm done street tuning it (hard to do in winter in detroit when the cars in storage) I'll be going to the dyno again for new numbers. Then I'll be going to the track again for new slips, and I'll be further blowing away anything that you can put down, all with my crappy magnacharger setup thats still faster than anything you have.



Anyway, back on topic. To give a definitive answer once and for all, NO YOU DO NOT NEED LS6 SPRINGS WHEN RUNNING BOOST!!!!!!! Multiple the psi you will be running by the area of the back of the intake valve. That will tell how much counter force you are actually getting against the spring pressure and you'll see it's not all that much compared to the forces you get with a bigger cam and more rpm. That is the real factor in determining if you need stiffer springs. If you are running boost AND raising the rev limiter, then yes stiffer springs might be a good idea but you can use 3500 springs which are stiffer than 3400 springs and don't require you to change the spring seat and valve seal like the LS6 springs do (which is extra cost). The LS6 springs would be overkill. If you are getting or plan on getting a bigger cam too, then yes you'll want LS6 springs. Once again shaun=owned hard.

[Niteflight]

I will see what happens, I'm not going to put in the springs yet, it will be tuned and dyno'd, the shift points will be returned to stock which I believe is 5600rpm(for a starting point anyway).

Until I know for sure with the dyno and tune, I'll take action accordingly.

[PCGUY112887]

Won't you also need a 2bar MAP?

[Guest]

If you want to make 235 whp then use the stock springs. If you want to make more then that, then get the ls1 or ls6 springs. GEt a spring upgrade for sure no matter what you do

If you want to be like aawrong and make only as much as a stock srt4 neon, then use the stockers like him.

Custom stroke crankshaft in the beretta pace car right aawrong? Or how you can't bore the aluminum block out to 94 mm. HAHAHAHa. I need to find that thread to show this guy just how wrong you are about everything.

but hey in the end man its your engine. Do whatever you want. You asked for advice so I am giving it.

[AaronGTR]

Won't you also need a 2bar MAP?

No. As long as the MAF signal isn't maxed out you are fine. The MAF controls fueling more than the MAP sensor anyway and there are plenty of boosted people running 1bar MAP's that are fine. At this time we don't have the ability to properly run a 2 or 3 bar MAP unless you get stand alone engine management. DHP's tuner will allow you to switch MAP's, but there is an issue with it measure barometric pressure right now that hasn't been fixed by them yet.

[Superdave]

I don't usually like getting involved in these fights but even in a stock N/A 3400 people have reported valve float above 6K RPM. There is NO reason that the OP shouldn't switch to atleast LS1 springs if not LS6's. It's cheap insurance. LS1 springs are like $30, LS6's are like $60.

If you are going to build a hi-perf engine then do it right.

[SappySE107]

Keep the personal attacks to yourselves and keep this on topic. No one cares about your past. It would be as useful as posting all the lame bs you post on RFT shaun.

Stock springs suck for performance engines. Do you think the rate of RPM increase will have an effect on the springs? Faster revving will heat them up more plus the turbo heats up the oil more. Heat is certainly not a springs best friend. Stock springs = posers in a performance engine.

[MidnightriderZ24]

im going to have to agree with shaun on this one. i got valve float with just 3 psi when i was breaking in my turbo kit!!! it starts to float BAD around 5700 or so. and this is on a 25k motor...

[Guest]

I don't usually like getting involved in these fights but even in a stock N/A 3400 people have reported valve float above 6K RPM.

If you are going to build a hi-perf engine then do it right.

Stock springs suck for performance engines.

im going to have to agree with shaun on this one. i got valve float with just 3 psi

Thank you.

Damn $30 for LS1 springs? Thats cheap. Just get them then you know you are good to go with no worries

[AaronGTR]

I don't usually like getting involved in these fights but even in a stock N/A 3400 people have reported valve float above 6K RPM. There is NO reason that the OP shouldn't switch to atleast LS1 springs if not LS6's. It's cheap insurance. LS1 springs are like $30, LS6's are like $60.

If you are going to build a hi-perf engine then do it right.

Yeah, key here is ABOVE 6000 rpm. Stock redline on a GA is 5800. And LS1 springs are barely stiffer than stock 3400 springs. That's why we're telling him if anything to get 3500 springs. They are stiffer, and using LS1 springs would require different shims and valves seals so they'd cost more.


Midnight, just because that happened to you doesn't mean it happens to everyone. I had no valve float issues on my motor at 6psi of boost. It didn't become apparent until I raised the redline. Then, I saw an obvious problem on the dyno charts. The power drop still didn't change much after LS1 springs, not until I got headers. They were causing most of the drop in power at 5900 rpm.


IMO, rpm and cam type have much more affect on valve float than a little bit of boost pressure behind them. It's the revolution speed and how steep the lobe ramp is that determines how fast it drops away from the lifter and how much spring pressure is needed to keep it in contact. Boost pressure will contribute to an existing problem, but it's not the biggest factor.

[MidnightriderZ24]

Yeah, key here is ABOVE 6000 rpm. Stock redline on a GA is 5800. And LS1 springs are barely stiffer than stock 3400 springs. That's why we're telling him if anything to get 3500 springs. They are stiffer, and using LS1 springs would require different shims and valves seals so they'd cost more.


Midnight, just because that happened to you doesn't mean it happens to everyone. I had no valve float issues on my motor at 6psi of boost. It didn't become apparent until I raised the redline. Then, I saw an obvious problem on the dyno charts. The power drop still didn't change much after LS1 springs, not until I got headers. They were causing most of the drop in power at 5900 rpm.


IMO, rpm and cam type have much more affect on valve float than a little bit of boost pressure behind them. It's the revolution speed and how steep the lobe ramp is that determines how fast it drops away from the lifter and how much spring pressure is needed to keep it in contact. Boost pressure will contribute to an existing problem, but it's not the biggest factor.

no need to get snippy... all im saying is i never really got float N/A, but i noticed it the second i started boosting. ls6's are just cheap insurance... against float. if your going to start modding the engine for boost, do it right the first time.

[AaronGTR]

I'm not getting snippy, I'm just saying that I got different results from my testing. Maybe your springs where more fatigued than mine or just not as good a set? We all know factory tolerances can be way off sometimes.

Anyway, I don't know why everyone keeps telling him to get LS1 springs. It's already been established that they are barely stiffer than stock. Actually they are rated higher closed and open pressure (where it's important) is almost the same, so if he was already having float issues LS1 springs would NOT solve them. 3500 springs would be the easiest cheapest solution and would suffice if he's not planning on getting a bigger cam.

[Niteflight]

I'm going to try and get the ls6 springs here, I don't know were I can grab the shims though, since I'm located in Canada comp performance doesn't ship to me.

[Guest]

3500 springs are less then $60 for the ls6 springs?

Look aaron first you said he didnt' need to upgrade and now you are changing it to useing 3500 springs.

He is building a motor to handle boost. He isnt' using a new motor with 0 miles where he might be able to get away with stock springs. He is going to need better springs. FACT.

Quit arguing for the sake of arguing. You are wrong about this.

[PCGUY112887]

No. As long as the MAF signal isn't maxed out you are fine. The MAF controls fueling more than the MAP sensor anyway and there are plenty of boosted people running 1bar MAP's that are fine. At this time we don't have the ability to properly run a 2 or 3 bar MAP unless you get stand alone engine management. DHP's tuner will allow you to switch MAP's, but there is an issue with it measure barometric pressure right now that hasn't been fixed by them yet.

What does the stock 3100 MAF max out at?