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  • #1

    3500 swap engine management

    I've located a 3500 to use for an engine swap. It will be used with a 5 speed stick.

    How difficult would it be to use the '04 computer for this? Is it just a matter of the "usual tricks" like wiring resistors in place of the transmission solenoids, or are there other things to be aware of, like serial data from other modules in the car?

    If I can't use the original computer, I would like to use the '94/5 MAF based 3100 controller because TunerCat has a definition file for it. However, I understand that there is a difference between the '94/5 cam sensors and later cam sensors. What exactly is the difference? Are there pictures of it anywhere on this site?

    What are the 3100 cam specs and the 3500 cam specs?
    I can't find the cam specs for the 3500 on the Powertrain website.

    Thanks.
    Current:
    \'87 Fiero GT: 12.86@106 - too dam many valves; ran 12.94 @ 112 on new engine, then broke a CV joint
    \'88 Fiero Formula: slow and attention getting; LZ8 followed by LLT power forthcoming
    \'88 BMW 325iX: The penultimate driving machine awaiting a heart transplant

    Gone, mostly forgotten:
    \'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: slow but invisible
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Originally posted by Will'sFiero View Post
    I've located a 3500 to use for an engine swap. It will be used with a 5 speed stick.

    How difficult would it be to use the '04 computer for this? Is it just a matter of the "usual tricks" like wiring resistors in place of the transmission solenoids, or are there other things to be aware of, like serial data from other modules in the car?

    If I can't use the original computer, I would like to use the '94/5 MAF based 3100 controller because TunerCat has a definition file for it. However, I understand that there is a difference between the '94/5 cam sensors and later cam sensors. What exactly is the difference? Are there pictures of it anywhere on this site?

    What are the 3100 cam specs and the 3500 cam specs?
    I can't find the cam specs for the 3500 on the Powertrain website.

    Thanks.
    I'm using the stock '7730 OBD1 computer to run the 3500, it ran my 3400 just fine as well...

    the cams are the same, .430 lift like 196 duration 112 LSA. the cam sensors are different but you should be able to splice the new sensor in. you want to match the sensor to the cam.
    Past Builds;
    1991 Z24, 3500/5 Spd. 275WHP/259WTQ 13.07@108 MPH
    1989 Camaro RS, ITB-3500/700R4. 263WHP/263WTQ 13.52@99.2 MPH
    Current Project;
    1972 Nova 12.73@105.7 MPH

    Comment

    • #3
      Also, you won't be able to tune a 94-95 3100 ECM. They dont have a removeable prom, and there is no re-flasher for it. If you want to tune a stock ECM that is made for a 3x00, go for a 96+ 3100/3400 ECM and use a DHP.

      Or just use the ODBI, and get a custom tuned chip for it. www.v6z24.com has some guys over there that swap 3400's in place of their 3.1mpfi motors all the time, and have gotten it down pretty good, so you can run the 2000+ injectors and FPR. A 3500 may need a little more tweaking to be optimal, but it's pretty close to a 3400, just more flow.
      sigpic New 2010 project (click image)
      1994 3100 BERETTA. 200,000+ miles
       16.0 1/4 mile when stock. Now ???
      Original L82 Longblock       with LA1, LX9, LX5 parts
      Manifold-back 2.5" SS Mandrel Exhaust. Hardware is SS too.

      Comment

      • #4
        TunerCat lists a definition file for the '94/5 MAF controller... The $1FA mask for a 16196387.

        If I use a 7730, I don't have to worry about the cam sensor. I'd like the most advanced ECM I can reasonably deal with.

        What is the physical/mechanical difference between the early and late cam sensors? Is it just as simple as changing the connectors? Are there no differences in the signal?
        Current:
        \'87 Fiero GT: 12.86@106 - too dam many valves; ran 12.94 @ 112 on new engine, then broke a CV joint
        \'88 Fiero Formula: slow and attention getting; LZ8 followed by LLT power forthcoming
        \'88 BMW 325iX: The penultimate driving machine awaiting a heart transplant

        Gone, mostly forgotten:
        \'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: slow but invisible

        Comment

        • #5
          They changed the timing ring on the cam for different years. It's as easy as getting the sensor for the year of the cam. Like an 04 motor, with an 04 camshaft, you use an 04 camshaft sensor. Fits right in no problem, and the connector is probably the same, if not no big deal.

          You would not want to use a 94 cam sensor with an 04 engine(cam) though for example. So it's just a matter of getting a new sensor.


          Not sure about tunercat, but you can't edit the 94/95 ecm with it, can you? If so I'm sure a bunch of people would be talkign about it now..
          sigpic New 2010 project (click image)
          1994 3100 BERETTA. 200,000+ miles
           16.0 1/4 mile when stock. Now ???
          Original L82 Longblock           with LA1, LX9, LX5 parts
          Manifold-back 2.5" SS Mandrel Exhaust. Hardware is SS too.

          Comment

          • #6
            Will I know youwant to use the most advanced computer but the 7730 is proven mang. Using that will also allow you to go to whatever cam you want, without worrying about the cam sensor and cam ring.

            Comment

            • #7
              I'm leaning toward the '730 for simplicity, but I need to learn more about the '94-'95 setup. If it's MAF and readily tunable, it'll be a lot easier than the SD system I'd have to run with '730.
              Current:
              \'87 Fiero GT: 12.86@106 - too dam many valves; ran 12.94 @ 112 on new engine, then broke a CV joint
              \'88 Fiero Formula: slow and attention getting; LZ8 followed by LLT power forthcoming
              \'88 BMW 325iX: The penultimate driving machine awaiting a heart transplant

              Gone, mostly forgotten:
              \'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: slow but invisible

              Comment

              • #8
                94-95 is not tuneable at all. And does not run MAF.

                I wish my 94 was a 96 as it would have ODBII and could be tuned. (96 also has MAF).
                sigpic New 2010 project (click image)
                1994 3100 BERETTA. 200,000+ miles
                 16.0 1/4 mile when stock. Now ???
                Original L82 Longblock                 with LA1, LX9, LX5 parts
                Manifold-back 2.5" SS Mandrel Exhaust. Hardware is SS too.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Originally posted by IsaacHayes View Post
                  94-95 is not tuneable at all. And does not run MAF.
                  Not entirely true... The A-bodies received a MAF only 3100 from 93-95 and its PCM was PROM based. I have yet to hear anyone successfully swap it into their car though. I know a few people have tried. And IIRC, Tunercat does have a definition file for it.
                  -Brad-
                  89 Mustang : Future 60V6 Power
                  sigpic
                  Follow the build -> http://www.3x00swap.com/index.php?page=mustang-blog

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by IsaacHayes View Post
                    94-95 is not tuneable at all. And does not run MAF.

                    I wish my 94 was a 96 as it would have ODBII and could be tuned. (96 also has MAF).
                    It was only beretta's and corsicas that had the non tunable ECM... Buicks and whatnot got the 3100 4t60e combo but used a removable e-prom ECM similar to the older 93 mpfi engines. This was one ECM management project that I tried but was unsuccessfull in swapping into my car... But now I'm OBDII and DHP, so I'm happy.

                    Got Lope?
                    3500 Build, Comp XFI Cam 218/230 .050 dur .570/.568 lift 113LSA
                    Fully Balanced, Ported, 3 Angle Valve Job, 65mm TCE TB, S&S Headers.
                    Stage-1 Raybestos/Alto 4t60e-HD, EP LSD, 3.69FDR
                    12.61@105 Epping NH Oct 2015 Nitrous 100shot (melted plugs) 13.58@98.8 N/A 3200LBS

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by bszopi View Post
                      Not entirely true... The A-bodies received a MAF only 3100 from 93-95 and its PCM was PROM based. I have yet to hear anyone successfully swap it into their car though. I know a few people have tried. And IIRC, Tunercat does have a definition file for it.
                      THIS is the engine management I was considering. So it's A-bodies, eh? Cool. I have a 6000 AWD for which I'm looking at a 3100 turbo swap. I was looking at this setup for that as well.
                      Current:
                      \'87 Fiero GT: 12.86@106 - too dam many valves; ran 12.94 @ 112 on new engine, then broke a CV joint
                      \'88 Fiero Formula: slow and attention getting; LZ8 followed by LLT power forthcoming
                      \'88 BMW 325iX: The penultimate driving machine awaiting a heart transplant

                      Gone, mostly forgotten:
                      \'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: slow but invisible

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Will mine do okay mine is an 01 bu 3.1L v6 computer? What exactly would i need to change? I'm guessing itll run severely lean if itll even start. I was thinking about getting a computer out of like a 2005 bu with the 3500 engine management codes plus they came with a 4t45e which is what trans i would hook up with it as well.... but wont i run into BCM problems as well as the newer one had traction control protocols mine doesnt.
                        Last edited by Tdunk; 02-02-2007, 12:34 PM.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          English?

                          I'm guessing that you're trying to swap a 3500 into something from 2001 that had a 3100. That will be different than my swap, as the car I'm working on never had EFI to begin with, so I can basically pick and chose as I like.

                          Anyway, as long as you have the injector flow/displacement ratio the same with the 3500 as with the 3100 (GM has probably already handled this for you), the 3500 ought to start and run with the 3100 program. I don't know how *well* it will run, but it ought to fire and run.
                          Current:
                          \'87 Fiero GT: 12.86@106 - too dam many valves; ran 12.94 @ 112 on new engine, then broke a CV joint
                          \'88 Fiero Formula: slow and attention getting; LZ8 followed by LLT power forthcoming
                          \'88 BMW 325iX: The penultimate driving machine awaiting a heart transplant

                          Gone, mostly forgotten:
                          \'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: slow but invisible

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            has anyone thought of a megasquirt? i know it will work on a 60*v6 but maybe we could get luck and it will work with the 56 tooth reluctor wheel. meaning no external trigger

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              I'm sure you could program megasquirt to work with it, but thats a rather pricey investment to be guessing.

                              Got Lope?
                              3500 Build, Comp XFI Cam 218/230 .050 dur .570/.568 lift 113LSA
                              Fully Balanced, Ported, 3 Angle Valve Job, 65mm TCE TB, S&S Headers.
                              Stage-1 Raybestos/Alto 4t60e-HD, EP LSD, 3.69FDR
                              12.61@105 Epping NH Oct 2015 Nitrous 100shot (melted plugs) 13.58@98.8 N/A 3200LBS

                              Comment

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