Announcement

**Superdave** · 01-18-2007, 07:13 PM

you can't put the 3500 top end on the 3100, the combustion chambers are too wide.

I'd port and polish the top end, switch to a 3500 plenum and then find a set of headers... you'll be making some pretty good power there. the store here sells cams now for the 3x00 os you could add in a mild grind as well.

**RedBird** · 01-18-2007, 07:20 PM

well first off the 3500 top end wont fit the 3.1/3100 bore, so that option is out. You still have a couple options though.

Large Port top end swap. Take all the top end stuff from a 2000+ 3x00 and put it on your block.

3400 - obviously, drop a 3400 in to replace the 3100. it should bolt right up. Probably your easiest option.

3400 with 3500 top end - This is your most powerful option, using stock 60*V6 parts, unless....

3500 swap. i dont knwo how that'd work for you, it's more work, i believe you have to mess with the mounts a bit

if i were you i would find someone who can port and have them do a set of heads and intakes of your choice. I would take the 3500 top and and have it ported, and bolt it on to a 3400 block. because i wouldn't feel like oging through the work to try a full 3500.

Ahh, beat me. lol

**SappySE107** · 01-18-2007, 07:50 PM

Depends on budget and goals (as always). 3400/3500 hybrid is likely the way to go for most people if you want to get the parts. If you 3100 was rebuilt and bored .060 over, you can use the 3500 top end with a 3400 heads gasket (I believe).

**Tdunk** · 01-18-2007, 08:15 PM

If you want to keep the 3100. You could go with a reground cam from Ben. Along with ported UIM, and LIM with a 62-65mm Throttle Body. Also You could build the engine up and turbo it if you want but stock the engine should run 8psi safely i believe if you want. Also when you think about power adding make sure you think about the suspension. You cant safely drive one without the other. Just thought i'd put my 2 cents in.

**rx191** · 01-18-2007, 08:33 PM

not trying to thread jack here but when did everyone figure out the 3500 heads will not work on a 3.1, last i heard everone was putting the 3500 heads on the 3100, in fact about 2 months ago everyone told me to put the 3500 heads on the high po 3100 i'm building? wtf.. please explain

**SappySE107** · 01-18-2007, 09:05 PM

The 3100 head gasket overlaps the combustion chamber. You can see if the 3400 head gasket will work ok on a 3100. Then your fire ring will be outside the combustion chamber but your cylinder bore will still be smaller than the combustion chamber by a decent amount. That is the only way I can see doing it on a 3100.

**Sidewinder** · 01-18-2007, 09:26 PM

Well I honestly don't know if I want the expense and trouble of buying and swapping to a 3400. In fact I'm not sure if I want to swap at all since I don't have alot of experience, and I'd probably have to pay someone to help me. Its hard to say. The other two options for swaps I posted will be of little expense, which is why I posted them.

I want the car to be more fun to drive, just adding the cold air intake changed the car quite a bit so I want a bit more. I'm thinking somewhere around 200 crank horse to maybe 240 ish for now. I also thinking that the 5spd swap will make the car much more fun to drive, but again I'm not entirely sure about that one. As for budget, well I need to work that out still, because I won't be doing anything until the spring.

Oh I also know a guy who can make me stainless steel headers for fairly cheap, so I'll be doing that. I don't know how much horsepower that will add though.

**Tdunk** · 01-18-2007, 10:10 PM

Umm if he isnt changing anything about the headers just making them stainless steel i dont think that would add any horsepower. Now if ben worked on a new set they would help with flow, but as i said you can get more power to about 250hp with a new reground cam about 140, new UIM,LIM, and TB for about 600. Thats a total of 740 dollars. Well 250 is with my updated 3100 but you should see around 230-250 if i'm right. I'm not positive about the prices i'll let ben chime in on that. So you'll get the power you need and the 5sp should help with getting power to the ground. Out of all that make sure you get a good tune to maxamize power output and mileage. Hope that helps.

**Sidewinder** · 01-18-2007, 10:39 PM

Wow, I'm actually pleasantly surprised by that, especially considering Milzy's Stage 2 package is almost 2 grand more and produces roughly the same power. Honestly I think those horsepower numbers are all I want to have for now, I'm a relatively new driver and I don't want anything too crazy.

So that's awesome, even if it is a bit more, I should be able to fit it into my budget!

Thanks guys! I'm gunna make up a list now of what I want to have done, and let me know of the exact prices if you could. Thanks again!

**SappySE107** · 01-18-2007, 10:46 PM

Headers are more about working as a system with the engine than it is flow. Stainless is not cheap but will last a long time. I would still coat them though to keep the heat inside and help with exhaust velocity. You need to get them the right length/size and the right collector for the application. Its not all about flow:P

A 5 speed swap into a 96 w body would be doable but the amount of work may not be something you can or want to deal with. I don't know how much someone would charge to do the work for you. I did the swap into a 91, which had the option. Brian did a swap but sold the car and doesn't really come around any more. Guy on clubgp did the swap and then made his car RWD afterwards anyway. I don't recall much about his 5 speed swap though.

You would have the cheapest upgrade to a 3100 being a 3400 intake manifold swap. The cylinder heads are also better for the 3400s, mostly because of the better casting quality. The intake valve is 1mm larger as well. 200hp at the crank isn't hard to do after you swap the 3400 top end on there (gotta find a 56mm TB at least, or a larger billet one from the store if you want to go towards te 240 mark. I would at least port the upper to accept a larger throttle body before you swap one on, if you plan to upgrade more in the future. A mild cam would also help you out but that requires more labor to install it.

Tuning is the important aspect. I would figure out how you will tune the car before you plan on modding.

3.4 DOHC swap would get you your goal, but your FDR is 3.33 with a 3100 and the 3.4 DOHC computer would be 3.43 oriented. I am not sure if you can just swap in a 96 DOHC ECM and use most of the 3100 wiring for the 3.4.

I can't comment on the 3800.

**SappySE107** · 01-18-2007, 10:49 PM

check out the store here for pricing. I am out of the throttle bodies right now. I would go with the 2000+ upper intake even though you will need a new (used) EGR. The 00+ manifolds are a better design than the 96-99 3400 manifold. If you want something that bolts right on without any modification, the 96-99 3400 upper intake off a minivan works.

**Sidewinder** · 01-18-2007, 11:18 PM

I actually really don't want to go through the hassle of swapping my engine out, I don't have enough experience to do it (although I'm going to learn eventually I hope), especially if I can get the power I want out of the engine I have.

Thanks for the tips, I'm gunna write all this down

**Tdunk** · 01-18-2007, 11:29 PM

lol umm i wouldnt use milzy's products ive heard it didnt get good results. If anything i'd trust SappySe107 (ben) very good products and reliability. Umm as ben said tuning is a must trust me on this. Make sure the person knows what theyre doing. Hey ben if he's wanting an easy installation without any hassle couldnt he just upgrade to a newer 3100 like mine? The harness should be relatively the same. It would increase his HP to the 3400's. Plus while its out he'd have the ease of working on the engine and then when he's ready just drop the new one in with lower miles and reliability.

**SappySE107** · 01-18-2007, 11:49 PM

No, its the EGR mount that is different. I don't know if the new EGR setup will let you reuse the tube from the EGR to the exhaust manifold. I don't think its expensive to swap though and I think someone even posted the part number for the tube.

MMS got 186 whp from a 3100 but I don't know what all they did to it and what the customer cost was.

Announcement

3100 Performance

3100 Performance

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment