3.1 3100 Top End Issue- push rod length?

[Ryan from Ohio]

Will drain oil and add new, check all rods tomorrow.

I will report back before 12 noon.

[tractorman]

Look, Ryan- it's none of my concern what happens to your car, but out of the goodness of my black lil' heart, I'm gonna yell at you. Don't take this personal- it's for your own good:

Keep screwin' around, and you're gonna have to buy an engine. If you didn't pull the pushrods out, then you DON'T know that they're straight. You can't just look at them and tell- you have to roll them across a flat surface. Also, if you didn't turn your engine with a ratchet so you can check EACH pushrod individually while its respective valve is closed, then you DON'T know whether or not you have those pushrods in the right place. There may or may not be a big difference in length between the intakes and exhausts- I don't remember. Regardless, you can't tell just by lookin'. You need to AT LEAST make sure each pushrod will spin when the valve is closed- this will REQUIRE that you turn the engine a fair amount. Don't be a puss about it- it isn't THAT hard to do. If one won't spin with the valve closed, you gotta pull it out and figure out what you did wrong. If you just put it back together without being sure, you're gonna have to buy an engine.

That said, your engine is quite possibly ruined anyway- I'm just trying to advise you on how you might salvage your engine and minimize further damage. The fact that you hadn't changed your oil in the first place worries me. These folks are right- this COULD be a bearing knock. The first thing to do is make sure all those pushrods are in place and undamaged.

Just how bad was the coolant in the oil? Just a little bit of mayonaise, or a milkshake throughout the whole engine?

[Syn]

really i would tear the lower intake off as well to get a better visual

when i got my Z with a blow head gasket(for free almost) i looked at the engine when the lower intake came off complete milkshake. ripped that block out the same day lol.

[Ryan from Ohio]

Ok...

Checked the rods in the front. All were in the right place.

When I pulled the back rods out I checked them for straightness on a new 12" rule, they were straight to within about .010" Of course it could be the black crust on them...

My Uncle helped a guy do these gaskets only about a month ago. They actualy put a rod in wrong. When they tore it apart the rod was bent, like noticeably. They replaced the rod and valve. Didnt hurt the piston.

Anyhow thats not my problem. It must be the bearing knock. Its more of a tick though...

Coolant/oil issue. Well to be honest it was almost all water in the radiator. So if "coolant" got into the oil, it was all water. So I darin the oil. Seemed like there was a little bit of "other fluid" in the oil. Considering how much degreaser and other various cleaners I was using it wouldnt surprise me if that accounted for most of the "other liquid".

So after tearing it apart, checking rods, changing the oil... It still ticks...

The ticking got a bit quieter after running the car around the block twice.

The car has been sitting since early december. There was a ton of water/liquids in the exhaust that burned off/out. Looked pretty strange.

Oh and BTW when I had the valve covers off I turned the motor over with a wrench. It made a bit of a hissing noise it certain spots. My uncle thinks that was the exhausts. Also there was a little bit of a squeak in areas. No binding, thats for sure. With the plugs in it wasnt to hard to turn over.

[Guest]

When I pulled the back rods out I checked them for straightness on a new 12" rule, they were straight to within about .010" Of course it could be the black crust on them...

That would be a considerable bend, they should be straight to with .00000000001" possibly even straighter. You can't use a ruller to determine this, you need to roll them accross a table, much like when selecting a pool cue and a local billards establishment. You can't use an even slightly bent cue there, so whey would you be able to use a slightly bent pushrod?

But you don't seem to be getting it, so I'll suggest you turn the repair reins over to an experianced mechanic.

Yeah, I'm brash and no I don't care.

[Ryan from Ohio]

No I get it.

The rule is a ground rule. Not a flimsy little piece of metal...

The black crust is what was causing it to have a little warp to it.

As far as being straight within that amount thats nuts. You couldnt even manufacture something remotely close to the tolerance.

I understand what you are all saying. What Im saying is they are not bent as they are all in the right place and have been. If they were in the wrong location the bend would be far greater than .010"No sense in beating a dead horse.

Time to move forward.

[tractorman]

I gotta go with Ryan on this one- a pushrod should in theory be perfectly straight, but I've seen them more than once that had a very slight visible bend, and this isn't neccesarily a problem- I've seen it before in NEW pushrods. I don't know what spec would be acceptable, but if it's less than .010, then they're probably ok.

I reckon I was a bit hard on you ryan- since I don't know the full story here an all. Sounded to me like you were half-assin' it... mabye I was mistaken.

So the full story is that it was put together wrong once, then taken apart, repaired, reassembled again, and STILL has a tick? And now you're confident that all rods are straight and in place, and it's still tickin'?

If that's the whole story, then yeah, you'll likely need to pull the engine. A bearing knock is possible, but so are any number of other knocks.

[Guest]

So the engine was ran with the pushrods in wrong positions? Is that what happened?

Well then you collapsed some lifters, causing the tick......

And yes the pushrods have to be perfectly straight, if not that won't rotate, and will cause excessive wearing of the lifter and pocket in the rocker. You don't have to believe me, I really don't care, I'm just telling you how it is, there's nothing to debate. a .010" bend in a pushrod of either length in the genIII 660 would be scrap, plain and simple.

Again, it doesn't matter what KIND of rule you use, a straight edge is not going to show you a bend as easily as rolling it accross a flat surface. I've held bent pushrods (among other things) against a straight edge and was able to show it as being "straight", when in fact there was a considerable bend, again, don't believe me, I really don't give a shit, it's your engine not mine, I'm just telling you how it is in reality.

[tractorman]

Despite bein' all pissy, he's got a good point. Could be a lifter.

[Ryan from Ohio]

Well ok, lets start this all over. The whole story from the top! I will even toss in more info, relevant or not

Front brake pads replaced and rotors turned- October

New Yoko Avid 2 tires September $400 total...

Mid Novemeber Transmission went out. Paid a shop big money to install a junkyard trans I paid for... Total of $825 paid...

* Coolant leaking but not on the ground? Oil looks good- no water/coolant in it? confused

Early December. Car died on way to work after overheating. Very pissed off Ryan didnt really care at that point...


Tear down: Well after sitting from December untill I started tearing it apart. When I got the heads off 4 and 6 had some rust in the cylinders. 6 was the worst, so I cleaned it up the best I could. In back 5 had just a hint
of rust.

Now:
Replaced the Heads with "gaurnteed" junk yard heads (motor had under 70K on it), head gaskets, head bolts, intake gaskets, thermo stat (might as well, right?), oil, oil filter, spark plugs, wires.

Motor had a tick. Inspected all rods. They were in the right locations and are straight.

I ran the car around the country block yesterday- about 5 miles in total. The tick kind of goes away at med-high RPMs and also on the wind down (foot off pedal). The tick also has quieted down a bit, but its still there.

Also since I finally got access back to my server here is a picture of the two rod lengths:


Im going to take my recorder down and see if I can get any decent audio of the tick and get it posted. Not sure if I got the correct cables to transfer it but Im going to try

Thanks for the help so far guys! Im not trying to half ass it. I am trying to get this done with the least possible labor though.

If I do have to get to the crank is there ANY way I can do so from the under side of the car? If it comes down to pulling the motor, thats just to far over my head. I dont have the equipment or patientce for that.

[torq455]

sounds like a lifter to me. it should last for a while.