1995 Grand Prix, 3.1, how much engine work /coolant leak

[willbird]

Ok my wife has a 1995 grand prix, auto trans, 173,000 miles. It is leaking and using probably 1-2 quarts of rotella 15/40 in 3000 miles (oil has been faithfully changed every 3000 from new). It has a coolant leak on drivers side, steams like a beeatch when you first drive it, then slow down to pull in a parking lot(the decel makes the coolant dribble on the exhust is my guess), very little leakage as the level barely goes down. I know from reading here so far I need to change the Lower intake gaskets, there are some engine oil leaks further down on the engine too because I see it when I do oil change. I'm considering options, option A is to just to the lower intake gaskets IN the car, Option B is to pull the engine, and maybe trans, replace all engine oil seals and gaskets. Option C is to pull the engine and trans, go thru the whole engine, re-bearing, re-ring (bore if needed) go thru the heads and do what needs done, and maybe have the trans gone thru as well (Know a guy that does them for 200ish).

Also I see on the lower intake gasket change post the author says you will get some coolant into oil when doing the engine with a wet water jacket, I'm wondering if it would be better for the engine to flush coolant so all that is in the wj when you teardown is H2O ??

The wife had the car serviced at the dealer for the first 100k or so, so on the trans she is going to dig and see if the fluid/filter has EVER been changed.....this is a decent running car, GREAT running car in fact, and it has had struts all around once, and front ball joints...really I think it is best to keep it and just freshen it up mechanically......I'm putting in place a rigorous PM program for my vehicles, had the engine toast in my 1991 S10 and leave us with 1 car from 3 for 2 drivers, aint gonna happen again, it's going to be a brave new world in the garage from now on and only minor repairs are going to come to ME, we're gonna get pro-active :-) and fix things before they break from now on.

Bill

[tractorman]

If the car runs good and those leaks are the only major problems... I'd just fix up the LIM gaskets, change the oil pump drive o-ring (which is likely the cause of your oil leak), and drive the thing. I wouldn't pull the engine and/or transmission if they're working well.

But that's just me- some folks LIKE to work on otherwise properly functioning cars. That's an older car and not worth all that much. The best thing to do is just keep it running and get lots of use out of it. If you decided to pull out and rebuild major parts, it could turn into a money-pit (not to mention time) pretty quickly.

I have an ol' '94 corsical with 145k~. If it ain't broke, I don't fix it.

[willbird]

Yea I'm with ya,

It isnt like the old days when you were dealing with a small block chev. that didnt necc. have a perm home between those two fenders :-)

Bill

[tractorman]

As you'll notice with a quick perusing of this site, your 3100 doesn't NECCESARILY have a permanent home between those fenders, nor do those fenders neccesarily have to accomodate only that 3100. These folks at this site do all kinds of swappin' an tinkerin'. In my opinion, though... these front wheel drive GM's are largely throwaway cars- worth maintaining, but not really worth upgrading. The 3100's are a good running engine in stock form. If somebody wants more performance, they'd be money ahead to just go buy a faster car.

As to your coolant question- what you're suggesting sure wouldn't hurt, but you'll want to change the oil before you start the engine, regardless. There's no way to avoid getting antifreeze and assorted nasties in the engine when doing the LIM job.

There's several boards on this site dedicated to that particular common problem- I'd reccomend that you go with the new-style Felpro metal gaskets, but there are improved designs also available from GM and Napa.

[willbird]

I did get the part numbers and prices from the chev dealer today.

12537009 is is the LIM gasket set for the non roller tip rockers, $35.51, about 20 bucks from gmpartsdirect.com. 12480829 is for the roller tip rockers, they cost $38.69 and about 22 at gmparts. The counter person said that you can't tell on the 95's if you have roller tip rockers til you pull the valve covers.

I'm leaning towards the improved GM gaskets, mostly due to cost, and factoring in that several voices have said here that properly installed they fix the problem. We have had the car on green coolant for a couple years...it had some issues with pegging the heat gauge within the first 2-3 miles driven from cold start, and the dexron looked like it had boogers in it (might have had for all I know)....I'v been converting all the cars and twucks (s10)over to prestone 5yr/150,000 extended life antifreeze, will probably still change it every year.


10477565 is the part number for the distro plug o-ring, it costs a wopping $1.84.

Actually I have never been a big fan of front wheel drive cars (I'm a decrepit 41 years old) BUT they are great for wives cars hehe, and it looks like an engine swap might be a lot easier than a rwd car.....which is bzactly why GM wants to make them that way :-)...all in all the 60 degree v6 looks like a heck of an engine, and I'm glad I found this site.

OH yeah, BTW this car has an M engine, not sure if all the 3.1 in 95 are M engines or not, man back in the day GM didnt pull that crap with changing stuff on an engine within the model year, we always thought of that as a FORD trait, having a 74-1/2 and having to take the starter with you to get a new one that would fit always made us laff at the FERD guys hehe

[tractorman]

Those prices sound awful low to me. If you can get 'em for that price, then the more power to ya', but I'm thinking I was quoted a price of about $110 or so from the chevy dealer for the LIM set. Even the cheap plastic felpro's at advance auto parts cost a lot more than what you've posted.

There seems to be some confusion in '95 and '96 about whether or not the 3100's had roller rockers ('roller rockers', not 'roller-tip rockers'). My '96 achieva had a VIN M engine just like my '94 corsica, but the achieva had roller rockers and the corsica didn't. So yeah- you'll probably just have to look. From what I've seen though, if you have aluminum valve covers, you probably have roller rockers.

Here's my standard warning for people about to do this job:

FOR THA LOVE OF GAWD- KEEP THEM PUSHRODS IN ORDER!

There's two different lengths, and you don't want to make valves hit pistons.

[bszopi]

I think the higher price is the set and the lower price is just the individual gaskets. Yes, you can buy the individual gaskets, but when doing an overhaul like this, the set would be the way to go.

[willbird]

Well All I want is the gaskets for the LIM job, ??

I emailed GMPartsdirect for the part numbers for the gasket SETS, we'll see what they say.

And yes I have saved the whole LIM how to post, and won't mix up the pushrods :-)

OK so they are roller rockers, sorry I got confused on that one, the guy at the parts desk DID say roller rockers, and ball type rockers....I got the roller tip part in MY mind somehow.

Rockauto shows felpro MS98004t as the complete set, for 67 plus shipping, BUT they list it for both ball type and roller rockers...??

Bill

[tractorman]

Not trying to nitpick you about those roller rockers- just making the distinction so you don't get mixed up when you take a valve cover off. You can see the needle bearings fairly easily in the roller rockers though.

The intake gasket set I just installed in my '01 lumina (vin J with roller rockers) was MS98003T.

I'm not absolutely sure that having roller rockers or not is the only difference between these two sets. I'm told that the later 3100's (vin J) have the same heads as 3400's. My VIN J 3100 definitly has a different upper intake than my '96 vin M 3100 with roller rockers had- the lower intake MIGHT be different... don't know. Perhaps the change actually occured with the VIN change, and not just the roller rockers?

The Advance Auto Parts website agrees with Rockauto. They list MS98004T for your car, and the description says it works for both rocker arm styles. You've found a damn good price for it too- advance is $20 more.

The MS98004T set has a completely different design than the old plastic gaskets had for the pushrod guides... maybe that has something to do with working for both rocker arm styles? Just a guess.

[bszopi]

The VIN J 3100s (the large port style, starting in 00) have a different LIM than the earlier 3100s.

As far as the gaskets between the rollers and non-rollers, there shouldn't be any difference at all. In fact, in 95 there were heads with the provisions for the roller rockers (the heads are notched for the rocker base to set in and align it), yet were still using the ball and pivot rockers.

[tractorman]

When I got gaskets for that '96 achieva, though... they wanted to know which style of rocker arms I had. Looking closer at the Advance site, they also list two different sets for his car with the old style plastic gaskets, in addition to the ms98004t set that willbird mentioned. It says that the intake gaskets without pushrod guides go in engines without roller rockers. Gaskets with pushrod guides go in engines with roller rockers. Apparently that change in the guide design with the metal gaskets allows them to work with either setup. So there are actually THREE designs for the old plastic gaskets (vin M w/rollers, vin M w/out rollers, and vin J)

I'm convinced. I'd definitely go with the ms98004t set.

[willbird]

Looking down the hole with the 710 cap removed (says OIL if you turn it upside down) It looks like this engine has ball rockers....I did find a worm gear clamp somewhat loose on a heater hose in a good place to drip on the exhaust manifold, I have fingers crossed thsi was the steam source.

I plan on doing the LIM job this summer tho just because I do belive it will eventually start to leak and cause problems


Bill