Do You Think Coolant Trashed My Engine?

[clevo]

I'm replacing the head gaskets on my 1990 Beretta 3.1L engine with 214,000 miles on it. Below are photos of the rockers and rocker cover. This looks bad to me, as though a lot of coolant has been mixed with the engine oil. Does this look like a rocker cover from an engine that will most likely has bearing damage?

Just wondering if it is wise to continue with the repair, or is this a sign that the engine is most likely damaged to the point that it won't last much longer after it is repaired. Any advice would be appreciated.

[robby1870]

Thats how my sisters 95 Monte looked when I changed her intake gaskets and two downed lifters last spring. Engine is still running fine to this day.

[Dave]

That's a hell of a milkshake ya got in there ...

Honestly, you won't know how much damage has been done unless you pull the bottem apart and measure the bearing clearances ... you can probably do this by just pulling the oil pan, and dropping the main caps and using plastigauage. But that does nothing for checking the cam bearings ... I'd probably just put it back together and be done with it.

--Dave.

[sharkey]

i would atleast change the rod and main bearings, they see a lot of abuse. you could do this on your back with the motor still in the car in a couple of hours. your cam bearings dont see near the abuse that the rods and main do.

if just keep a close eye on the oil pressure for a bit, you will know if you have a bearing going south. i would change the rods though for sure, being once you notice the oilpressure is low, its either knocking or you have a rod hanging out of the block.

[clevo]

I'm pissed at my own stupidy and laiziness. I knew there was something up back in December when I kept having to add coolant. The mechanic said he couldn't find a leak, just to keep adding coolant to keep it topped off.

I don't suppose changing the head gaskets and then getting something like a BG Services Engine Flush and then running a synthetic oil makes any sense? By engine flush I mean what is described at the bottom of this page.

http://www.bgfindashop.com/bgservices/lubricationfuel.htm

Sounds like the only sure bet is to replace bearings. Pisses me off because the car is still in good shape cosmetically, and I did change the oil every 3K to 4K miles. Changing the bearings in the bottom end is probably a stretch for my mechanical skills. Although I gues I could fix the leak and get lucky like robby1870 and have no problems.

[Dave]

if you can replace the head gaskets, you can replace the bearings ... it's extremely easy - the hardest part will be pulling the oil pan.

--Dave.

[mudbug]

I don't suppose changing the head gaskets and then getting something like a BG Services Engine Flush and then running a synthetic oil makes any sense?

My brother suggested the same thing to me (the 3100 in my '97 Grand Am SE has suffered the same fate) but I'm just going to yank the motor, thorougly clean it out (unless I find a 3400, then I'll clean that out ), and do a general rebuild.

I need to take more pictures, but this was what I was greeted with when I cracked the plenum off the motor:

http://oracle.zianet.com/kc5kto/gallery.pl?gallery=Grand%20Am%20Engine%20Pictures&function=1

This is nasty stuff. When I drained the crankcase I removed the drain plug and for a couple of seconds nothing came out, then this stuff slowly oozed out the hole. I had to let it drain overnight to get most of it out. That's crap I definitely don't want clogging up my oil galleries, passages and pump when I turn the key on a motor with new gaskets and a few hours' worth of work.

[tractorman]

I don't know that droppin' that pan will be all that easy. I'm told that the subframe has to come out to drop the pan in my lumina. I imagine your pontiac is similar. In my case, I think it might be easier to pull the engine out.

Now I'm not sayin' that you don't need to change the bearings... that's a lot of sludge you got there. I'm just sayin' that it won't be a piece of cake like some folks here seem to think.

[clevo]

According to alldata.com, the steps below are all it takes to drop the oil pan on a 1990 Beretta. When I get back to working on the car later this week, I'll have to see if dropping the oil pan is this simple and then figure out what to do from there.

Even if it is really this easy, you still have to know what the hell you are doing once you have access to the bearings. I'm doing it from a manual and what I learn from this site, not from training or experience. That's why I was thinking this might be beyond my skill set.

Oil Pan Removal Steps

REMOVE OR DISCONNECT
Negative battery cable.
Raise and support vehicle.
Drain crankcase and remove oil filter.
Starter.
Flywheel inspection cover.
Oil pan retaining bolts and oil pan.

[sharkey]

dropping the pan in a beretta is easy. basicly pull the starter and dust cover and pull the pan. it may be easier to pull the right subframe down to get the pan off.

[tractorman]

I stand corrected.

I've underhauled more engines than I can remember (this is a common procedure with diesel engines), so I'll give you some tips to underhauling. Do the rod bearings one at a time. I usually don't use plastiguage, but it wouldn't hurt to do so. Make damn sure that if you're taking standard (or .010, etc.) bearings out, that you put standard (or .010 etc.) bearings back in. Look at the part number of EACH bearing shell and make sure you don't have a mismatch- it's happened to me and I was lucky enough to catch it this way. After torquing each rod cap down, push it back and forth by hand. You should be able to feel the thrust clearance fairly easy. If not, you've screwed something up... and this way you know which rod to look at. Same goes for each main cap- after you torque each one down, pry the crank back and forth with a screwdriver. You should be able to feel and SEE the thrust (look close). If you can't, then something ain't right.

One thing that gives a lot of people trouble is rolling the top halves of the mains out and new ones in. Some folks (who often don't know what they're talking about) will tell you to grind the head of a bolt thinner than the bearing shell, stick it in the oil hole, and turn the crank, pushing the old shell out. In theory this would work, but I've seen more than one block ruined this way. It's real easy to scratch a main line-bore this way if you aren't damned careful. The way I do it is to take a flat screwdriver that's thinner than the bearing shell, put it against the side that doesn't have the lock, and hit it with the palm of my hand. That's almost always enough to get the bearing started around. Then I have a heel bar ground sharp on the tip- I put the sharp edge against the bearing shell (don't touch that crank with it), and 'pry' it out a bit at a time. I rarely have trouble with this method, doing one cap at a time. On rare occasions the top shells have been tight, and I've had to loosen other main caps. CAUTION- don't loosen them much, especially the front and rear, otherwise you could damage a crank seal. The most I ever loosen them is this: I loosen the bolts on the end caps, run them up just snug by hand, and back'em off 1/2 turn. The other caps don't matter so much as long as the end caps aren't too loose. Now, to roll the new shells in, oil them (assembly lube is for pussies), start then in by hand (make sure you're rolling the right way (the lock on the correct side). They'll go in maybe 1/4 of the way. Now take a DULL flat screwdriver, set it against the edge of the oil hole (BUT NOT TOUCHING THE CRANK), and push the bearing in some more until your screwdriver is near the block. Now put the screwdriver against the bottom edge of the shell and do the same thing. Assuming you got it all lined up right, it should go in fairly easily.

This isn't a difficult thing to do, but it's not quite as easy as SOME folks on this board would have you believe. Take your time and don't put the pan on until you're SURE you got it right.

[tractorman]

Another thing- take your belt loose before you get started. A tight belt will hold up on the front of the crank and make it difficult to roll the top shells out of the front two journals.