Hahaha. . you guys see this yet??

[geoffinbc]

It was a problem when they were built. The silicone used to seal the ends of the intake was put onto a block that had not been cleaned with a non petrolium based cleaner like brake cleaner or acetone.

So the silicone didn't bite into the metal and seal right.

Dexcool is not GM's problems. It is the owner not getting their collant pH tested or keeping the level topped up.

It is like the firestone tire fiasco.. If people kept their tires inflated there would be no problems.

Oh and gm is fixing ALL faulty 3100 and 3400 engine under good will even after all warrenty has expired. So they need to stop bitching now.

That's BS. the gasket itself fails, not the silicone bead at the block/intake mating surface. I know b/c I personally took apart my 3100 in my Beretta and the gasket was toast. All the required maintenance was performed on the car, yet at 88K miles the oil turned to milkshake. GM effed up and your arrogant ass is blaming owners?

And most people (at least the ones I know, my family included) aren't having luck getting the damage repaired w/out warranty.

I mean, what kind of a stupid design flaw is it when your coolant outlasts your intake manifold gasket? Remember, Dexcool isn't supposed to be changed for 100K miles... and most gaskets go at 70-90K

<edit>
whoops... didn't realize this post was so old... sorry for digging it up
</edit>

Well I do not know where you live. But here in British Columbia they are getting fixed. I know this because my dad is a service manager. Also it is the owner fault for alot of the problems. Do you think that just because GM buys makes and sells the car they are responsible for it once it is in your hands? Thats bullshit if you own it take car if it. Or do you expect a phone call when the intake gasket is about to leak? I dont wana sound like an ass but come on if people pulled out the dip stick at least once a month then this problem would be cought and corrected before major damage occurs.

When visiting the dealership I can tell the difference betweena good and bad owner. A good one sees his coolant is low and he checks his oil notices a problem and has it fixed. Because he catches it so early they fix it free of charge even when the car is 50,000K out of warranty. The next neglagent owner comes in with the engine leaking, coolant low, oil over full cuz he never check. The entire engine is gummed up with sludge and the cam snapped in 2 and all the valves bent. This guy will ususally end up paying for some damage, if not all, since he totally neglected the vehicle.

[Rhedalert]

Many of the cars that are having the gasket failures will have under 50,000 miles on them, also a large chunk of these vehicles are minivans. For vehicles so new and with such low mileage, do you really expect the average person, be it a mother or commuter, to have to open up the hood to make sure that everything's ok? I mean, GM is going around marketing this 150,000 mile coolant life and 100,000 tuneup intervals. These engines cant even make it that far because of a defective part that GM won't recall. And then take into account that even if someone checks underhood once a month, do they know what to look for? I know my mom won't recognize that lighter color oil = broken gasket. I can justify this if the cars were over 10 years old, but nuh-uh. The point is that GM needs to take responsibility and stand behind their products. Just like how the late 80's- mid 90's cars were flaking paint off, GM could blame that on owners not waxing it enough, completely neglecting the fact of the primer being defective. GM just gives you the shaft so now it's "your problem". Well now it becomes GM's problem when buyers shuffle to the Japanese automakers that seem to give a shit about their consumers and quickly resolve problems. Oh, and there's no official recall in the states for these gaskets, so as far as Ive seen, everyone is paying for the repair bill, unless they have some way of fondling the dealer service department.

[geoffinbc]

The problem was the PPG paint. It happened to ALL makers using the paint system. Most customers with this problem had it paid for by PPG.

Maybe American dealers are just mean and GM of America is not replacing them

[Rhedalert]

Yes, my mistake. I remember reading that the topcoat allowed sunlight and other elements thru to the primer, causing the primer to oxidize and lift the topcoat off (I was able to verify this on my old car by stripping the topcoat off non-chemically, revealing primer with a thin browned top layer) anyway, yeah I can agree the dealers aren't helpful here.

[smilinguy99]

It is like the firestone tire fiasco.. If people kept their tires inflated there would be no problems.

The folks that had Firestone tires on their vehicles kept their tires inflated about as much as any other group of motorists. And they, like other groups, used the numbers on the side of the tire to inflate them so the recommended inflation pressures were irrelevant.

The plain and simple truth was the tire was a POS. Firestone had major problems like they had in the past with the Firestone 500 tire.

This gasket problem is something that has been discussed at length on this very site. There is a flawed design that is inconvenient for GM to fix. GM would rather stonewall and let the cars trickle down the buyer ladder to folks less willing or able to fight.

The fasteners that hold the manifold on to the head cross at 45° angle. In other words, the middle two fasteners push the manifold downward toward the valley and the end fasteners push the same manifold into the head. The other side is the same way so the manifold is being pulled in three different directions at once.

There is a lot to go wrong here. If tightened in the wrong order, or there is a little binding on a gasket, or the gasket is flawed, things get effed up.

This is not a hard problem. They could likely hand it to an engineering co-op student and get a satisfactory solution. The fix might be as simple as making all the fasteners go the same direction on a head, (down would likely be best) or adding another bolt to the end of the head and manifold. But that is costly, inconvenient and a tacit admission of a flaw they don't want to pay for in thousands of previously sold vehicles. So they let the problem continue.

sg99

[Cliff8928]

Hah! i remember that in Driver's ed they were telling us in the class to keep our tires inflated to the number on the sidewall (max inflation pressure!) what goofs!

Cliff Scott
89 BerettaGT
89 Volvo740

[geoffinbc]

In Fords owners manual it said that tire presure could be lowered in order to provide a more comfterable ride. The tires were indeed shitty but they would not have blown out if they were inflated right. But liek you said there should be more of a safety margin because people do neglect their cars.

[Lyle's GTP]

It's kind of funny how GM rarely ever recalls cars that have not killed/injured someone. It is truly a poor manufacturer, along with dodge and ford. The only time they get a good idea, it has been developed by a european/japanese manufacturer. Imports seam to be the only companies holding ground with their customers. .....except those few who are driven by their domestic ego.

I was one of these ego trippers too (I guess I shot myself down). However I won't get rid of my car because, economically it doesn't make sense. I also figure by doing the work myself, and with enough time and patience I can work out the GM defects. Someday I will have a reliable car.

But one thing I can say is this, my next car will not be a domestic.

Lyle

[geoffinbc]

Hey American cars have just been reported to be more reliable and trouble free than European Cars. Thats pretty good.

If they made Canadian cars they would be the BEST.

[ikessky]

Aren't there a couple manufacturing plants in Canada??? I thought both GM and Ford had one or some.

[smilinguy99]

Well, it is true the Europeans make some mighty desirable cars. But have you ever talked to someone who owned, say, a BMW or a Volkswagen for any length of time? Of course they would never tell you about what a pile it is. How it needs stupid stuff fixed all the time. How the electrical system isn't up to Japanese standards. Or how there is a drivability problem that other owners you come across remark about, but the dealer claims never to have heard about and is unable to do anything about.

No, they'd never tell you that. They just quietly glow when someone recognizes them as the driver of that fine example of "German Engineering".

The Europeans get the big stuff right then go home. The Japanese get the big stuff right then stay late until they can't stay awake anymore then sleep in the office and finish it in the morning--before work.

The fact is, the European quality target is a low mark to shoot for. The phrase "German Engineering" is a slogan that has no doubt cinched the deal on a lot of shiny cars, but German engineering is really not all it's cracked up to be. The engineering seems fine until myriad annoying problems crop up. Then the engineer says, "Ich spreche nicht Englisch."

When they start saying, "American cars are the equal of anything from Toyota or Honda," then they will be saying something worth listening to. Until then, I'm happy to say, "Küssen Sie meinen Esel," to the Europeans.

sg99

[Cliff8928]

I think you should look around about VWs... the Jettas and Golfs are a pile, I've heard many unhappy owners (although, they never complain about the powertrain)

My dad has also had many a BMWs and they seemed to frequent the dealer for warranty work often enough aswell. (much more than his current Lincoln)

There's faults in EVERY car... Just some people put up with them better...


Cliff Scott
89 BerettaGT
89 Volvo740

[geoffinbc]

I wouldn't say japanese cars are that great either. They always feel like a tin can. I personally like american cars the best. They have never let me down.

[RidgeRunner]

I wouldn't be so quick to diss the german cars. My sis has owned 2 Volkswagens (85 Scirocco, ~210k miles now, and a 96 Jetta Vr6, currently around 125k miles) and they have similar problems with little stuff as my car for example (some interior parts of questionable quality, etc) but overall I think those Volkswagens are a little better than my GM, or any of my family's GMs.

[bszopi]

That's because you own a Sunbird, Jon...

Thing I don't like about the German cars is the repair costs for parts and labor.