3.1 has me stumped! Need Help

[jmgtp]

Car ran fairly well when I got it. Replaced spark plugs and wires today. Now runs like shit. I used Rapid Fire #6s (they were pre gapped at .045 - I checked them all). For wires I bought the $20 ones at autozone.

Installed them. Car ran bad, I thought I goofed on wire placement on the coils but all checked out OK. So I figure maybe bad wires, pull one off and the terminal tears out of the boot and stays on the plug. So I gently remove the rest, twisting the rubber boot as I pull, every damn terminal on all 6 boots rips off. So, I think its running bad because these wires are obviously junk. I return the wires and get the Bosch set. I install them. Fire the car up, idles normal. Back out, it seems ok. At first it feels like most of its power back. BUT, under load, especially noticeable at high rpm, the engine surges and loses power. What the hell is going on?!

So to recap:
-6 fresh rapid fire #6s pre-gapped at .045
-New set of Bosch wires, triple checked to make sure cylinder/coil matchup is correct
-engine lacks some power
-engine surges, more noticeable under load and at higher rpm
-car is driveable, but annoying
-also changed the fuel filter with a purolator filter (are they unidirectional?? I installed it the way the old one looked but the bracket on the new one is clipped on so someone could have turned the filter around)
-I'm superpissed cause it ran a lot better with old crusty 100k plugs and original 13 year old wires

help!!

-john

[geoffinbc]

Well personally I think BOSCH is crap but for simple plug wires they should be fine.

Fuel filters are usually NOT unidirectional. So your gonna have to find the indicator that says which way it goes. Also in this case I would have bought a stock replacement from a dealer.

Looks like another case of the Autozone blues

[jmgtp]

I drove the car around a bit tonite. The motor mounts are crap and with the engine bucking and missing under load its shit to drive. I'll check the fuel filter but I doubt that its the cause (as I remember it was running like crap with the new plugs/wires and that was before I even touched the fuel filter). I'm still at a loss.

[Cliff8928]

Hmm... That's strange, I've never had any trouble with the wires on my 3400 (they're the "Double Silicone" ones from AutoZone) or many of the other products that I've gotten from work... you're sure you put the wires on right?

Firing order is 1-2-3-4-5-6

Cylinders 1-3-5 being on the firewall side

Cylinders 2-4-6 being on the side towards the front of the car

order on the coils goes 1-4-6-3-2-5



Cliff Scott
89 BerettaGT
89 Volvo740

[jmgtp]

yup I'm positive thats how I did it.
It really does feel like its running on 5 cylinders most of the time. I don't even have time to look at it now, goin back to school in an hour or two, and once there I can't do anything with it, might be 2 weeks before I get a chance to come back home and give it another go.

[cutlassdude96]

may be you didnt get all the wires snap on one of the spark plugs

[jmgtp]

may be you didnt get all the wires snap on one of the spark plugs

a possibilty, but I distinctly remember hearing and feeling the little *tink* sound when they snap on. I have a spare set of coils and ignition module that I think I'll slap on next time I'm home just to eliminate them as a possibility.

[jmgtp]

CRAP!

Well looks like the beretta is all done for a while...

The engine runs like hell. All I did was replace plugs and wires and this damn thing went to hell. It ran fine before. Today I put the old crusty plugs back in, double checked all the plug wires but still ran the same. Even put the old fuel filter back in just in case (and yeah the new one I put in was in correct - not backwards). Was planning on replacing the ignition module and coil packs (I have spares) but its impossible to get the old one out. Theres an a/c line that runs directly in front of the lower 3 bolts making it impossible to even think of getting a socket or anything in there. At my best I could touch the bolts with some contorting of my fingers. Finally I said screw it, if it runs sloppy it runs sloppy, and headed back toward school, a 60 mile trip. About half way there this thing loses whatever little power it had left. I mean NO power at all. I limped it back home, had to keep it at 3000 rpm with the slightest touch of the throttle and forget about idling. Compounding all of this is the T.O. bearing is about to dump. I wouldnt trust it to take me one more mile without the TO bearing failing. It knocks like hell (sound goes away when you press the clutch). I am so damn pissed.

At least the TO bearing I know what has to be done. But the damn engine problem is really bothersome. I mean it ran good, strong, then new plugs and wires and it turns to shit and then gets progressively worse?! Is that a sign of a bad ignition control module, CPS, what!?!? What gets me worse is that theres no codes stored so I dont even know where to look. I havent tested fuel pressure yet, as I cant seem to find a gauge to rent/borrow. I did press the pintle on the valve in while it was running and fuel shot out and hit the hood, but I guess that doesnt mean much. I really dont want to replace things at random -that turns very costly. So I'm outta a car for school, till Thanksgiving break at the soonest (assuming I can fix the damn thing).

[Cliff8928]

Re: CRAP!

Was planning on replacing the ignition module and coil packs (I have spares) but its impossible to get the old one out. Theres an a/c line that runs directly in front of the lower 3 bolts making it impossible to even think of getting a socket or anything in there. At my best I could touch the bolts with some contorting of my fingers.

Uhh, you remove the whole ignition module assembly with 3 bolts, (i think there's 2 on the bottom, one on the top... held on with bolts that have 13mm heads)

Cliff Scott
89 BerettaGT
89 Volvo740

[jmgtp]

Re: CRAP!

Uhh, you remove the whole ignition module assembly with 3 bolts, (i think there's 2 on the bottom, one on the top... held on with bolts that have 13mm heads)

Cliff Scott
89 BerettaGT
89 Volvo740

huh... last I saw the ICM is retained by 6 bolts with tiny heads like 7mm or something. I have my spare 1 sitting right here, theres no other holes in it to mount it by and it looks identical to the one in my dohc, which used 6 bolts but was easier to get out in a W car. Its the 6 bolts that reatain the coils to the module (2 each) and then the module to the block. Unless the piece beneath it comes off with 3 bolts that I am unaware of. Anyways... anyone have an idea what may be the problem with the engine? Why the condition would deteriorate to the point of absolutely no power and an idle that wants to stall??

-john

[v6h.o.]

you can remove the ignition coil module either way.

i always used to do it with the 6 bolts that hold the coils in. as thats what holds the ign module to the bracket.... the bracket is kinda a pain to remove,

the 6bolts for the coils are a 5.5mm socket... or a 7/32 will work.

hmmm, definetly odd...
sounds like a bad coil or module.

[jmgtp]

you can remove the ignition coil module either way.

i always used to do it with the 6 bolts that hold the coils in. as thats what holds the ign module to the bracket.... the bracket is kinda a pain to remove,

the 6bolts for the coils are a 5.5mm socket... or a 7/32 will work.

hmmm, definetly odd...
sounds like a bad coil or module.

ah yes 7/32.. i knew it started with a 7!
Does anyone have a pic of this bracket? maybe on an engine on a stand? Either way it looks like a pain in the ass to get at anything down there the engine bay is pretty tight there and theres wires and a/c lines everywhere. Reason I thought it may be the CPS is because I recall someone mentioning that after the car sat for 8 hours or so it would start just fine. Well the car always starts just fine and idles normal until just last night when it had been running for maybe 25 mins on the highway and I hit some traffic and the thing would hardly idle and had absolutely no power at all and thats when I also heard the TO bearing knockin like hell in neutral - I actually thought the sound it was making was the mack truck next to me till I pushed the clutch in and it stopped! Ah the woes of the 60* v6... reminds me of all the troubles I had with the gtp when I first got it -its solid now. I guess all the bugs gotta be worked out.

what really blows (besided the fact that I dont have a car at school now), is that should I not be able to fix it over Thanksgiving break that means it has to wait till Christmas break and that puts a halt on the headwork/swap for the gtp

thanks for the input guys, i really do appreciate it, keep it coming!
-john

[Cliff8928]

Oh, removing the cooling fan can help gain access down there by the coils (i kinda forgot that because i have dual low-profile fans)

Cliff Scott
89 BerettaGT
89 Volvo740

[TechSys]

My '90 corsica is currently having the same problems, but only when it is cold. When the engine gets warmed up it runs like new, or close to it.

I have changed out the coilpacks, ignition module, sparkplugs, wires, EGR, IAC, and the o2 sensor.

When I first start the car, after it has set for awhile, it purrs like it is supposed to, then for a brief second or two it'll cough. If I try to get on the road it coughs, spits, and sputters, bucks, whatever you want to call it, when I try to accelerate. It is driving me completely mad.

Oh, I also found it a little easier to drop the starter and remove the fan when I changed out the coilpacks and ignition module. It was still a pain, but a lot less of one.

[jmgtp]

I wish mine only did it on a cold engine. Its the opposite case for me though. Cold engine runs, (note runs: didnt say anything bout runnin strong - but does idle ok). Warm engine has no power whatsoever wont rev past 4k, and idles terribly and would prolly stall if I let it. Needless to say I left the car home (I'm 60 miles away at school now) my dad took it around the block the other day and said it ran ok, not powerful, but it ran (cold engine). I'll be swappin coil packs and the ignition module when I can find some time away from school (I have spares so at least it wont cost me anything). If that doesnt solve it I guess I'll replace the crank position sensor. If that still doesnt do the trick I'll burn it to the ground. For real.