Question : 3400 Overheating, what next?

[Admiral Jedi]

I bought an '03 Grand Am from a guy knowing it had coolant in the oil and needed some work. It wasn't my first LIM repair, so I didn't hesitate much to buy it.

The guy said he had replaced the LIM and he diagnosed the issue as a head gasket. The head gasket job isn't much more than the LIM repair, so I went ahead and replaced both head gaskets along with the LIM gaskets.

Upon starting it up for the first time, I noticed some white smoke coming from the exhaust, but didn't think much of it other than it was still burning it out. After I started driving it a bit, I noticed the heat wasn't working and the temp gauge was around the 215* mark. I flushed the radiator, heater core, to no avail, then I replaced the water pump (old one looked operational, but was a different impellor style). The heat worked for a couple trips, and the car maintained a normal 195* operating temp.

On my trip to the emissions testing station, the temp gauge shot up into the red a couple times so fast that I couldn't react, and white smoke started pouring out of the exhaust and the overflow reservoir hose. Sucked. I babied it home buying coolant along the way, and it drank it...

When I got home, I pulled the plugs, and the ones on cylinders 3 and 5 had some orange coloring on them. (The previous owner put new plugs into it). I followed up with a compression test and those two cylinders came up at 150 psi, same as cylinder 1. I checked the oil again, no milkshake mix. It was about 30 degrees outside when I did the compression test, and the engine had not been run in a day. Not sure if that's important or not.

At this point, I know I need to tear down the engine again and find the broken park, but what specifically would you guys look for? Since my Jbody days, you guys have been the authority on this style engines, so I am looking for some help. I've attached pictures to better explain some of the details.

This picture is of the spark plugs.



The cylinders with the stars had the yellow plugs.

[1988GTU]

cracked head maybe. How much coolant did you first put in and did you purge the system of all air to top it off? How much more did it drink on that last trip home?

[Admiral Jedi]

I was afraid someone would say that. Where do the heads usually crack?

I put a gallon of 50/50 coolant in it on the way home. It lasted about 10 minutes before it was overheating again.

When I first put it all back together, I filled it with coolant until it started coming out the burp valve. Ran the heat, then did it again.

I just pulled off the LIM, and found this on cylinder 3. I am thinking it's unrelated, but want to be sure.

[Admiral Jedi]

Some more details. I took some time and pulled off both heads and discovered some interesting things.
1) There was no error on my part in assembly.
2) I cannot find any cracks in either head. I assume they would be obvious.
3) The front cylinder head had lots of gunk in the coolant passage. I dug it out with a screwdriver and then cleaned out the coolant passages in both heads
4) The front cylinder head has an interesting looking valve. Pictured below. Look at the cylinder 4 exhaust valve.


Rear cylinder head.


5) No damage to either head gasket.

Is this normal? It looks like somebody dug out a part of the head. The other side of the head has something similar, but not nearly as bad...



At this point, I am not really sure what to do...

[SappySE107]

Did you mill the heads?

[Superdave]

wtf... Can't say i've seen that before on a head.


I'd pick up another set, I'm sure someone has a pair.



That LIM gasket damage is from not lubricating the surfaces when assembling. After cleaning, spray both sides with a little WD-40 so the rubber slides on the mating surfaces during tightening. Shouldn't happen again.

[fat rabbit]

Your going to need the heads milled or pick up another set of cylinder heads(at least the one with pitting) I always send cylinder heads down to the machine shop when I do head gasket work. When coolant gets old(never flushed out) it starts to attack aluminum and pit the metal, how did the head gasket look when you removed the cylinder head?

I also wouldn't buy felpro lower intake gaskets any more, I've seen so may cars with those gaskets were the rubber separates from the metal frame, the revised GM lower intakes don't have that problem(they box in the seal) and there cheaper. Did you use Felpro head gaskets too? I'd use GM graphite if you can get a hold of them or Victor Reinz head gaskets as there made of the same materiel.

[1988GTU]

The cost to have those heads reconditioned for use is not only going to carry out past the $ value, it will add in more time involved as well.

I'd find some replacement heads in good condition all preassembled. Coat the limg with a mist of wd40 or olive oil/cooking spray. The coolant drinking was probably related to that failed LIMG. The #5 chamber often has cracking issues from my findings. A lot of heat soaking on that cylinder.

[Admiral Jedi]

Your going to need the heads milled or pick up another set of cylinder heads(at least the one with pitting) I always send cylinder heads down to the machine shop when I do head gasket work. When coolant gets old(never flushed out) it starts to attack aluminum and pit the metal, how did the head gasket look when you removed the cylinder head?

I also wouldn't buy felpro lower intake gaskets any more, I've seen so may cars with those gaskets were the rubber separates from the metal frame, the revised GM lower intakes don't have that problem(they box in the seal) and there cheaper. Did you use Felpro head gaskets too? I'd use GM graphite if you can get a hold of them or Victor Reinz head gaskets as there made of the same materiel.

The head gaskets looked fine as far as I could tell, but they were the second set of head gaskets put on the car. It was driven maybe 40 miles with them.

I will admit that I did not have the heads milled down.

I am new to the platform, is there a reputable ebay store or somewhere that sells assembled heads?

You're about the 4th person I've spoken to who has recommended against Felpro gaskets. Where is the best place to get the GM gaskets? Got a part no.?

The cost to have those heads reconditioned for use is not only going to carry out past the $ value, it will add in more time involved as well.

I'd find some replacement heads in good condition all preassembled. Coat the limg with a mist of wd40 or olive oil/cooking spray. The coolant drinking was probably related to that failed LIMG. The #5 chamber often has cracking issues from my findings. A lot of heat soaking on that cylinder.

That's good advice on the coating the limg. Thanks for the tip!

[90BlueZ]

You're about the 4th person I've spoken to who has recommended against Felpro gaskets.

Let me be the 5th one

[SappySE107]

If you read enough, you will learn to L67 swap and not mess with that motor.

[fat rabbit]

The pitted head most likely isn't going to be saved, your best bet would be to go to a local junkyard and pull a set of cylinder heads. Make sure though when you do that the casting numbers on the cylinder head match up, or you'll run into small problems with picking up the correct lower intake gasket set(they change the tab location for the gasket on the heads) Having your cylinder heads checked/cleaned by a machine shop may cost more money and take more time but I'd rather have it done compared to chancing having to do the job over again.

I pick up GM lower intake gasket sets from the Chevy dealer, I also get GM head gaskets from them too. CARQUEST carries Victor Reinz SD head gaskets(the same as GM but packaged nicer and less money) and I'm sure other part stores carry that brand too.

Did you buy new head bolts when you did the head gaskets and how did you torque them down? The head bolts are a torque to yield and should not be reused, a lot have done it with success but your still not suppose too. GM also has a pattern to torque the head bolts down in, I start off at 10ft-lbs and work my way up in increments of 10ft-lbs following that pattern till I get to the correct torque.

[caffeine]

3400 Overheating, what next?

Rock auto for gaskets if you're not in a rush. They carry Victor Reinz.

[Admiral Jedi]

I put new head bolts in it. I'll be buying some more now along with new gaskets.

After having done the repair once, I am leaning toward buying some remanufactured heads and not taking a gamble on the replacement heads then keep the car forever. These are what I need, right?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-1-3-4-GM-170-487-CYLINDER-HEADS-PONTIAC-FIREBIRD-8MM-ROCKER-BOLTS-/350845661760?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item51b007f240&vxp=mtr

What are the differences between the heads with the 8 and 10mm rocker bolt holes?

An L67 swap would be fun though...

[fat rabbit]

Having the cylinder heads in my Lumina cleaned/checked/decked/3 angle valve job only ran me $240 out the door, otherwise the cylinder heads you linked should work. Older cylinder heads used a 10mm bolt to hold down the rocker arm, after XXXX year(I can't remember witch year off hand) they changed over too 8mm bolts.

Can you even fit a L67 in a Grand Am?