Service Engine Light???!!!!

[3400-95-Modified]

If your front o2 sensor is failing then the engine has no idea what the air fuel ratio is and can lean out the engine unknowingly and detonate and break a piston or break something else. The o2 sensor that is pre cat is a very important sensor for fuel monitoring... The SECOND o2 sensor, which you need to really start asking what the code number is so you can identify which is throwing the code, Can be ignored at least for right now since that sensor will not hinder performance or cause anything to break, but it could point you in the direction of having a failing cat which could begin to clog and cause other issues.

My suggestion... Go buy a code scanner from Wal-Mart... Stop relying on the mechanic who broke your car to tell you the codes.

[PerfectCreature]

I don't have the cash to dish out for the code scanner at the moment-not until I get paid tomorrow.
Would I be fine since the code has not come back?
I know both O2 sensors are new, and one or both of them could be faulty I suppose. The PVC valve is also new. The Cat is not new, and is stock as far as I know. It was not rusted that bad at all, so I told them to keep it on.
I would imagine if the code would come back within the next few trips if it was going to?

[TGP37]

Do you still have the old O2 sensor? Maybe swap out the new one you put in to rule out faulty sensor.

Maybe the sensor itself wasn't fully tightened. Thinking that as you mentioned how the o2 code popped up during reving up the engine. Thinking the increase in exhaust flow could draw in more air, enough to toss a code.

You might have a very small exhaust leak upstream the sensor. Feed a small amount of seafoam into the intake when idling. That should produce some smoking exhaust and if you have an exhaust leak, that should point it out.

Maybe get a second opinion from another shop?

Hope you find the problem and resolve that intermittent code. They can be the worst to find sometimes.

[PerfectCreature]

I honestly have not clue at this point, reason being is the SES light is still off, I have driven about 289 miles since it was last on, I have been keeping count.
I think at 13 or 14 start-ups.
I cannot imagine they disabled it?
I will be getting a tunes PCM from ben within the next few days, and we will see if they did or not.
Hopefully, it will not come back and it is something that may have sorted itself out on its own.

[PerfectCreature]

I have another issue. Though, no SES code, it seems to have not appeared. I drove another 49 miles today.
My coolant is brown (well, not really brown per se' but.....a really dark orange/brown) again, there were water drops at the top of the cap when I pulled it off, the coolant is brownish with lots of little bits in it, really nasty looking.
It looks the same as if I did not even flush it just 400 miles ago.....
I have no idea what it is, or what is causing this?
Do you suppose the waterpump core is going?
I really do not understand why it is not staying orange.
I know when I did bleed it today because I has started to get some slight overheating problems(mostley when riding around town, stop and go traffic kind of thing, under 30MPH on a 86F day), I notice it did not bleed coolant right away, it was about a second of air I assume. I bled it through the bleeder valve after it ran for one minute, bled for a few seconds until coolant poured out, then I let it run for about two minutes, and bled it again. I then shut the engine off, and bled it one last time. The heater was running full blast during the whole process.
Could the air in the coolant cause it to turn brown? I read that on a few forums and what not when I did a search, I am not sure though.
Could the water droplets be from when car went above the normal operating temperature?

Do you suppose adding tap water, like from a hose could cause that? I mean, I am really just wondering what could cause it to turn brownish, is it worth just switching to green? Can I do that safely? I mean, the manual says Dexcool, and I don't want to mess stuff up by switching. I know SEARS uses some chemelion stuff that is the "all in one" if antifreeze....I was just in there and made a big hassle about using dexcool, and I don't want to be all hypocrite on them and request green.

[TGP37]

I'v heard of weeping head gaskets when brand new. The factory puts ground ginger root (or walnut shells) in the coolant as a sealer.

You can switch to green after a full on back flush. The kit is cheap and is a hose attachment that is inserted between the engine and the heater core. With the engine running and heater blasting, the hose pumps in water against the normal flow direction and dumps out the rad cap.

That will flush the system very well. Then you can add the green.

A quick test to see if your heads are leaking.....with coolant cold, remove the rad cap, top off so you can see the coolant level and start engine. Look for bubbles when lightly reved up. If you have bubbles, you should get a test kit designed to detect exhaust in the coolant.

Also, with the car fully warmed up, after a drive, while idling hold a piece of paper 1" from the tail pipe for a few seconds. If it gets wet, you may have a head gasket leak. But the engine needs to be well warmed up cause a cold engine will have more moisture in the exhaust.



Switching to green is a good idea as the dexcool crap eats away at the plastic gaskets. Specifically the LIM gasket.

If you have a head gasket leak, your mechanic royally messed up big time. Test it yourself and if you get a positive reading for hydrocarbons in the coolant, you need to sue the mechanic if they don't resolve the problem.

ps- overheating issues is also another sign of a possible head gasket leak. That is an issue that MUST be corrected or else the engine can suffer severe damage IF the leak gets worse. The size of the leak, if any, is a big factor.

[PerfectCreature]

I will try the paper trick when I get home tonight.
As far as the test, is that a kit or are they just strips?
I looked online and I only found kits.
I cannot imagine the headgasket would have a leak though, it is a possibility. The heat is very very hot, and there was no actual foam or anything on the top of the cap, just water droplets. The cap was clean, and clear. The oil looks fine as well. Light brown because it is new, and synthetic.
The coolant however was brownish, which I guess can turn brown if oxygen is present, which I suspect because of when I bled it, it did not immediately drip coolant it took a second or two with the stop opened all the way up.
I am not sure what the particles are though?
Also, I did check my radiator out last night, and it looks pretty clogged. There are rocks and other pebbles stick between the fins. It looked like a pretty decent amount of them too, just by peeking through the grill.
Could that also be the culprit?

[pocket-rocket]

It isn't test strips, at least I haven't seen that strips yet.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/Tools-Garage-and-Equipment/Block-Tester/_/N-25dh?filterByKeyWord=block+tester&fromString=search

As for my thoughts on the coolant turning brown... Is there anything floating on top of the coolant or is it turning a straight up brown? If there is brown stuff floating on top then most likely it is oil. If its turning a straight up brown without floaters then they probably didn't do a good job flushing your coolant system. Either way I would switch out to green. Dexcool is someone nasty stuff long term and expensive.

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[TGP37]

Do you have water dripping out the tail pipe?

Is your ATF piped into the radiator (passanger side). Some rads cool ATF fluid and they can crack, weeping ATF into the coolant.

Does the heater refuse to blow hot air until the temps get high, then balance out at operating temp?

Can you hear coolant bubbling moments after shut off when warmed up?

Does your fuel pump sound gritty, grinding or inconsistent when key is turned to run (but not started)? Bad fuel pumps can overheat the engine via lean AFR's. Fuel pumps can fail if the filter was clogged and then replaced with a new one. The loss of pressure can speed up failure reducing fuel pressure to the point the PCM can not skew the injector pulse width enough to compensate. I believe they stop at 20-25%. The lean AFR can not cool the piston/chamber well enough leading to hotter coolant temp.

Just some ideas to consider. it may just be something simple, overlooked.



Did you ever find out why you blew your last head gasket? Over heating can do that. You may have fixed the end result but not the source of the problem. Definately shut it down before it hits red to save your new gasket and prevent heads warping.

[PerfectCreature]

Um, to be honest, I am going to assume it blew because of the pressure it was under.
It never actually overheated. I am going to assume, given my memory, that I sort of always knew I had a headgasket leak, I was just not really sure of what the symptoms were, and the mechanic (which is the same mechanic I had do the headgaskets this time) advised me it was the LIM gasket, when it was really the headgasket. The symptoms were there the whole time. I knew I had an issue, but the headgasket leak was not that large. I am going to assume it actually went because of the RPMs I was placing the engine under.

As for the tail-pipe thing, I did it and no water was leaking from the pipe, the paper got very hot, but was not wet. I stuck my hand by the pipe too and it appeared to be very hot, but not moist.
As for heat? It is hot as soon as you turn it on, I will double check tomorrow though.
As for the ATF? I do not know if it runs through the radiator or not. I checked the Haynes manual, and I could not really find anything that said it does, or does not. So, I have no clue honestly.
As for checking for bubbling, I would hear that outside or inside the car? I would be listening for like a gurgling sound?
As for the fuel pump, I guess I am not entirely sure what you as far as the fuel pump sounding grinding or inconsistent. Could you explain a little better what I am looking for?
I do not think the filter was clogged, but It could have been. The fuel filter was replaced at about 82,000 miles last time I replaced it, and this time it was replaced at about 100,000 miles. When I changed it the first time (82,000), the mechanic said it looked like the original. The only reason I replaced it was because they were going to have the exhaust off, and it would have been beyond easy to replace it while they had the exhaust off.
Just a side note, it was a lease/rental vehicle. I did not know that at the time of purchase. As far as overheating? It never reached the the large tick before the red one, it almost did, but I shut it down.
I let it idle for about 5 minutes this morning, and it only went to the 1st mark past 200. It normally stays just above 200. I did not have time to let it idle any longer.
I am going to that same mechanic tomorrow, and I will not budge until I get answers, I am normally a very calm and collected, and I refrain from becoming rude or agitated, but I may need to turn aggressive tomorrow in order to get results.
In regards to brown stuff floating? I would not say they were floating, more of like they are particles that are within the coolant. I believe they settled to the bottom. The only thing about the flushing the coolant system is this. That the coolant was orange when it left the shop the first time, just after the headgasket. Then, it turned brown. I had it flushed with the special machine, until the water was clear, then filled with coolant. I imagine they used tap water for this, even though I had asked for distilled water. Then, after 2 flushed, it is still turning brown. Almost like it is rusting in the system. So, I dunno, really.

[PerfectCreature]

Okay, took it to the mechanic. I talked to him about the part(the belt guard), yet again, he claims he has no idea why it is broken.
Anyway. On to coolant. He said the coolant looks fine, it just looks nasty because of the particles which he said it from corrosion in the system, that is being unclogged. He thinks the color change is because it is still all gummed up from the previous coolant issues. He mentioned that if the person did not take care of the coolant system that could cause an unreal amount of gunk.
He said he thinks it is stuff that is being unclogged because it smells like combustion inside the coolant, but the pressure check says it is sealed up nice and tight.
So, he said try to run it for awhile longer and see if I can loosen up some more corrosion, and then switch to the green coolant.
I am glad to see it did not lose pressure. He said there is no point to do a test with the kit because of the gunk that is being picked up by the coolant now, he said it would give a false reading.
Ideas? Comments?

[pocket-rocket]

Did he test it hot? I had a Hyundai Sonata that had a bad head gasket. When cold it was fine. Held pressure and everything. Once warm it would leak like a no other on the tester, spit any coolant out that got added (and then some), no heat, steam out the tail pipe, etc.

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[PerfectCreature]

Yep, it was just a little under the 200 mark. Held it there for about a minute or so. Needle did not move one little bit. I watched it like a hawk.
We double checked the coolant, and took a sample, the coolant does not have any bits it. We took a closer look, and it appears that there is slight crud on the bottom of the tank. It is pretty dirty. It really looked like it had bits inside of it. I bled it really good, about five or 6 times when it was nice and hot.
Also, as per the heater, it takes about 45 or so before it blows really, really hot. I started it at about 6am this morning, outside temperature was about 60 or so, and from cold start up, I turned it on, and 45 seconds later I had some really hot heat, about 30 seconds after that, it felt like I was being burned by the heat.
When I decide to go green, I will buy a brand new tank.
I do have a question though. When do the fans right behind the radiator turn on? The two really really large ones.

[pocket-rocket]

That's a good sign. About the only other thing it could be other than crud would be the trans cooler in the radiator like TGP37 said. I do feel a little more comfortable chalking it up to crud, but I wish you lived closer so I could check in person. I worked on a van this past winter that had an oil cooler go bad from from never changing the dexcool. I flushed that thing probably 12-15 times and was still getting crap out of it so my solution (as hilarious) as it sounds was to put some Cascade dishwasher powder in the cooling system to break down the oil. She said she was still getting crap a while later because there was just so much garbage in there, but the detergent rally did help clean up the cooling system. Food for thought.

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[PerfectCreature]

Yes, I was very pleased to see that it held pressure. I was also glad to see that it was actually orange instead of brown, and that the tank is just dirty.
In terms of the fans in front of the radiator, are they supposed to turn on when you turn on the A/C or the heater?
Thanks.