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3100 running troubles after swap

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  • 3100 running troubles after swap

    Swapped a 3100 from a 96 Olds Ciera into a '95 Lumina with help from the guys in the swap forum. The Lumina engine had overheated, had a stuck piston, and coolant in the oil. The engine in the Olds ran fine before I pulled it. I swapped the upper intake and related parts and ran (almost) all the sensors from the Lumina. The Lumina had been sitting for about a year, so I used the injectors from the Olds, too.

    Work done to the Olds engine before installing included: new standard size rings and bearings, light cylinder honing, new timing chain, new plugs, new 195 thermostat (drilled a 3/32" hole in it), all new major seals and gaskets.

    After starting the engine, I soon smelled a strong hydrogen sulfide odor at the exhaust and the temperature gauge slowly climbed all the way up until the "hot" light came on (when I shut it off) without the fans kicking on. The thermostat had opened, but the heads were cool enough to hold a finger on them (?) There is an exhaust sound that is sort of like a bad valve or an engine miss - but the engine did not miss at all before the swap. [Now that I think of it, I am running the coil pack and plug wires from the Lumina - I will swap those items for those from the Ciera.] The rotten egg smell and the "miss" are pretty much continuous. I checked the fuel pressure regulator and could not find evidence of raw gasoline. I am running old wires that show no arcing at night.

    I could only get 10 quarts of 50/50 coolant into it initially (specs say it holds 12.5). After one good heat/cool cycle, I was able to add about another quart, so now I am theoretically about 1.5 qts low on coolant. Heater is blowing hot air.

    Can a miss cause the rotten egg smell? Or do I have a bad cat that probably killed (or was an accessory to murder) of the first engine?

    Could this be caused by old gasoline? Or maybe water in the gasoline?

    Is there an easy way to troubleshoot the fans?

    The Lumina had a low oil sensor that I did not see until I had buttoned up the oil pan. I did not want to re-do the pan, so the plug hangs free and I have a "low-oil" warning light on all the time. I plan to measure resistance on the sensor with the float in the up position and apply that resistance across the plug to turn off the light.

    Any help will be greatly appreciated.

    [EDIT:] When first fired up, the engine ran without a miss, then, as it warmed up a bit, I heard a backfire that seemed to originate in the exhaust, then another. As the car got warmer, the intensity of the backfire seemed to decrease, but the frequency increased until the car ran as if with a light miss. This is hardly enough to cause any engine vibration at idle, but you can definitely hear it at the tailpipe.
    Last edited by bill buttermore; 09-10-2010, 09:20 AM. Reason: Clarification

  • #2
    The miss is fixed! It was a bad plug wire. The bad smell must have been caused by unburned gas hitting the catalytic converter. The exhaust now smells normal, and the engine runs smoothly. The fans still do not come on and if left to idle for longer than, say ten minutes or so, the temperature gets up pretty close to hot. Still have to work on that.

    It sure was helpful to have the coil pack, ICM, and wires from the donor car (96 Ciera) to exchange to test. I have been doing this stuff for a lot of years, but it still amazes me how something as simple as a bad wire can cause such nasty symptoms.

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    • #3
      Glad you figured out that part. As for the fans, trace the wires back (as best you can) to the relay looking for any issues. Then try powering the fan directly w/o the relay, and then with the relay. That will give you more of an idea of where to look - is it the fans themselves, the relay, or the ECM not commanding them to turn on? Have you tried turning on the AC to see if the fan kicks on?
      -Brad-
      89 Mustang : Future 60V6 Power
      sigpic
      Follow the build -> http://www.3x00swap.com/index.php?page=mustang-blog

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      • #4
        Yes - I turned on the AC but no fans. However, the system is out of 134A, so the compressor won't run, so I don't know if it is a valid test (?).

        I just bought an AllDataDIY subscription for the car to help trace the wiring. I'm off to the store to buy a new combination flasher in the hopes of getting the turn signals to work. If I can them working, I'll take it for a test drive. I did notice a pretty big white connector with a blue top beside the turn signal but not connected to anything? Looks like it has about 60 cavities - maybe for a body control module? Maybe the module was an option. This car had a separate combination flasher attached to the firewall.

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        • #5
          Update. Remembered I had bought a nifty infra-red laser thermometer at Harbor Freight a few months ago and realized this is the sort of problem where such a tool comes in handy. I started up the engine and let it idle until the temperature of the cylinder head near the sender for the gauge hit 210F, at which point the driver's side fan turned on. Meanwhile the dashboard temperature gauge is hovering near the hot end white line. Except for the gauge, this seemed to me like normal operation - thermostat opened about where it should - when the temperature got up around 195F - the hose at the bottom of the radiator was about 50 degrees cooler than the engine temperature. But I figure the temp gauge needle ought to be about midrange or so at 195F so the driver can get a chance to see things warm up.

          So, I took Brad's advice and rummaged around in the spare parts until I found the three-wire temperature sender and connector I had salvaged from the Ciera. I installed it; matched the wire colors and Voila! the dashboard temp gauge is about mid range at 195, rises a bit then you can watch it drop when the fan kicks on. So, almost there. Just the passenger side fan to figure out now.

          I unplugged the passenger side fan connector, and installed a 12V test light across the wires. When the driver's side fan kicks on - there is no power to the pass side fan. I swapped fan relays, and got the same result, so both relays are okay. Neither fan comes on with AC, but system is flat and compressor does not come on either. Should both fans be coming on at the same time? My neighbor's 95 Regal with a 3100 works that way. BTW, his engine temps look about the same as the Lumina except with both fans running, the coolant out of the rad is about 30-40 degrees cooler than the Lumina.

          I think the sender I (needlessly) bought for the rear head (dashboard gauge) is incorrect or defective. The parts guy, who is a very knowledgeable fellow, says it is the correct application. But the wire is a different color (blue instead of green) the probe is longer than stock and it has no rubber boot around the wire connection at the brass fitting. But most importantly, it shows hot when it should be mid-range.
          Last edited by bill buttermore; 09-11-2010, 11:25 PM.

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          • #6
            Just found this in AllDataDIY:

            DESCRIPTION
            The primary cooling fan operates when engine coolant temperature is above 226°F with A/C Off or 223°F with A/C or Defrost functions requested and vehicle speed is less than 50 mph. When A/C refrigerant pressure is greater than 185 psi, then the cooling fans will run. When certain diagnostic trouble codes are set then cooling fans will operate. The PCM will discontinue primary fan operation when the ignition is turned Off, engine coolant temperature falls below 210°F or A/C pressure drops below 189 psi with A/C selected.

            Secondary fan operation begins when engine coolant temperature reaches 235°F with A/C Off or On. The secondary fan will operate if A/C pressure is above 236 psi with A/C requested and vehicle speed is below 50 mph . The secondary fan will discontinue operation if engine coolant temperature drops below 228°F, refrigerant pressure drops to less than 185 psi or the ignition switch is turned to the Off position.


            So, unless I am missing something, it appears that everything is working normally. I don't want to force the temperature up to 235F to see if that second fan comes on.

            Now to fix the turn signal (only works in lane change, not when clicked to L or R), and the cosmetic stuff, and we are done.

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            • #7
              Awesome. Could the turn signal just be a bad stalk?
              -Brad-
              89 Mustang : Future 60V6 Power
              sigpic
              Follow the build -> http://www.3x00swap.com/index.php?page=mustang-blog

              Comment


              • #8
                Yes, it sounds like the fans are working correctly. With Luminas of that era, only one fan comes on at first. I THINK both fans should come on when the a/c is operating... but this won't happen when there is no R134A in the system.

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                • #9
                  The turn signal switch was bad. I installed a new one today - $51 at O'Reilly's. I thought the car had been sitting for a year, but the owner (Russ) told me it had been sitting for nearly three years. I'm lucky that old gasoline didn't cause any problems. Unfortunately, I tried a new electronic flasher ($16) before I bought the new switch. Got the upholstery and carpets cleaned, replaced the only non-working bulb, put some resin in a couple of windshield stars, and am about to clean the doorjambs. Unless Russ wants the A/C fixed or the front brakes changed out, I am nearly done. It is good to have Russ owing me a favor - he makes the world's best salsa!

                  Thanks for the confirmation on the fan operation. AllData is okay, but they are not as good as a factory service manual, or someone who really knows the car.

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                  • #10
                    Took the car for a test ride last night with Russ. It runs great, temp gauge stays below halfway on the highway. The car drives and rides really nice. Finished cleaning it up and delivered it to Russ' garage this afternoon. Thank you all for your kind help.

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