Help Removing Oil Pan, Please - 96 GP3100

[Schmieder]

I need to remove the oil pan on my 1996 Grand Prix SE 3100. The heads are off as I need to remove the pistons. I don't have an engine hoist either.

Can anyone give me some instructions and precautions as I am stuck. I read the manual several times but it leaves me still confused. I do not want to start removing important bolts w/o knowing exactly what I am doing.

I was told once a while back I could lift the engine block slightly by placing a 2x4 under the tranny pan and jack it up slightly.

Can it be that easy? Just raise the block slightly and remove the blocked bolts?



I am stuck and need help. I need to get this car on the road soon. Piston #6 was cracked when the intake valve seat came loose during heat soak. Both the head and the piston got chewed up a bit but the cylinder walls are still in great shape. I started her up and heard the noise and instantly shut it down. I took it apart down to the heads and saw what had happened. Now I have new heads, new forged pistons with some strong rings and a pair of MLS Head Gaskets for boosted applications.

The good side of this is I will finally have forged pistons so I can safely hit 16-18 psi boost.

Please help, thanks

[robertisaar]

i don't know about jacking up on the tranny pan, but i have heard of that trick using the engine oil pan...

this may cover a few things your manual didn't...

http://imgur.com/3lCzH.png

http://imgur.com/8ybFa.png

http://imgur.com/Veoe4.png

http://imgur.com/iSrOo.png

[Schmieder]

i don't know about jacking up on the tranny pan, but i have heard of that trick using the engine oil pan...

this may cover a few things your manual didn't...

http://imgur.com/3lCzH.png

http://imgur.com/8ybFa.png

http://imgur.com/Veoe4.png

http://imgur.com/iSrOo.png

Thanks Rob! Those links ARE a big help. Especially the torque ratings.

What is the normal procedure for piston replacement on the gm 3100? Removing the block from the bay?

If I drain the oil and remove everything possible would two strong men be able to lift the block out? No trans, no heads, no starter, no oil, even removing the timing chain cover and chain.

I'm guessing my buddy and I can lift the bare block but never done that before. I know them things are heavy.

How about this idea? I could raise the engine slightly jacking up from the oil pan and remove the oil pan bolts that are blocked. Then lower the block and remove the rest of the oil pan bolts.

Ehh, issues. Like anything else, is a PITA until I know exactly what I am doing. Then it becomes simple labor.

Thanks for your help Rob! Several projects in my 96 Turbo GP received your input for a job well done.

Btw fellas, the PCM Tuning is complete and she runs absolutely beautifully. Until cylinder 6 intake valve seat fell out cracked the piston. Such a shame cause those heads were reman with 3 angle valve job, new valves, ect...sh1t happens. I believe the valves were heating up too fast from idle to WOT bursts at 8 psi. The rapid expansion and contraction probably kicked the seat loose. Being that it was cylinder 6, a known hotter cylinder in the bunch.

[robertisaar]

according to alldata, removing the engine isn't a necessity, but i imagine it would be easier. i believe a gen3 short block weighs between 200 and 300 pounds...

http://imgur.com/pqyAe.png

http://imgur.com/4XMzn.png

http://imgur.com/o5oOI.png

[Schmieder]

Isn't there a few parts I need to loosen bolts too before I jack up the engine from the Oil Pan?

Keep in mind the heads are off so the dogbone mounts are not installed.

If I remember correctly it was something to do with the tranny, but I really can't be sure.

Can anyone help me out with this part? What do I need to loosen up before I jack the engine up from Oil pan to reach the few Oil Pan Bolts?

The plan is to jack up and remove ONLY the Oil Pan bolts that are hard to get, lower then remove the rest. Repeat for install.

If I decide to pull the engine from the car, which I might, are there any points I need to know that aren't discussed in the Haynes Manual?

Reason being is I am going to replace all bearings, oil pump/screen, clean journals...basically a rebuild while I am replacing the pistons. Figured it would be smart to do it now while I'm down there. After that my only REAL weak point would be the tranny (not for long).

Thanks Guys

[robertisaar]

i've never had to deal with this myself, so i can't really give you any more info than what i pull from alldata.

[bszopi]

Anytime I've pulled the pan, I pulled the engine. I HATE working deep into the engine while it is still in the bay. Usually seems like its just easier to pull it and work on it on a stand, than try to mess around (like it sounds like you are currently doing) just to keep it in the bay.

[Schmieder]

i've never had to deal with this myself, so i can't really give you any more info than what i pull from alldata.

It's cool dude. You have been a great help already!

Anytime I've pulled the pan, I pulled the engine. I HATE working deep into the engine while it is still in the bay. Usually seems like its just easier to pull it and work on it on a stand, than try to mess around (like it sounds like you are currently doing) just to keep it in the bay.

Yeah, I don't mind working on my back with the car on stands. I'm still young enough and I have long arms.

I just may pull it but I don't want to re-install the heads just to yank it. Plus I would need to rent, borrow or buy a lift. If I can save money with a little hard work I'll do it.

Now, I learned my engine comes with hypereutectic Pistons and Forged Rods stock? Is this true?

I'm on the fence with Forged or Hypers. Both have benefits. I know hypers can handle a good amount of boost, just keep the detonation off them. I was told I can push 12-15psi on Hypers if everything is in tune w/ ZERO detonation. Being a daily driver first, it seems Hypers would be best due to lack of expansion wear. And any boost above 15psi for a street car seems like over kill anyways. So going w/ Hypers and 12 psi boost seems good. I know forged are best but the expansion is a draw back. I'm trying to retain longetivity w/ this turbo build.

In the end I will probably just do the work w/ the block in the bay. Replace pistons, rings, oil pump, cross-hatch hone, ect.

Any advise?

[bszopi]

Why do you need to reinstall the heads to pull the block? There are plenty of ways to attach a lift to the bare block with the heads off.

As far as stock components go, I am pretty sure the stock pistons are not hypers. Most aftermarket stock replacements are though. Rods are sinter-forged stock.

[Schmieder]

Why do you need to reinstall the heads to pull the block? There are plenty of ways to attach a lift to the bare block with the heads off.

As far as stock components go, I am pretty sure the stock pistons are not hypers. Most aftermarket stock replacements are though. Rods are sinter-forged stock.

Bottom end work is new to me. The concepts are there but the hands on experience is ZERO.

Pistons must be Hypers or Forged. I simply do not want cast pistons at all costs. And being my engine has good knock prevention with some intelligent and conservative tuning the Hypers may be much better then Forged over all. Unless advise here states otherwise?

Ehh, I have A LOT of research to do yet. As of now the block is headless but sealed up in the block. All the free parts are sitting nice and cozy in my warm basement. I have my top end set up for more accurate gasket matching since I have a week or two before they get put back on.

Any advise that anyone can think of I'll probably need, besides common sense stuff.

This time I'll try to post up pics as I go for others.

Oh, is there any other shadetree trick reaming the cylinder or must I purchase a ridge reamer? The ridge is really small but still present.

Thanks guys, I know I can ramble on but that is just my character, details.

[95Grand-Am]

I would recomend pulling the block so that it can be cleaned better. I suggest taking it to a engine shop to have it hot tanked. Then all your oil passages will be clean, cam bearings can be installed. With out any slug in the engine your oil will stay clean longer. In the end you will have a better engine.

[Schmieder]

I would recomend pulling the block so that it can be cleaned better. I suggest taking it to a engine shop to have it hot tanked. Then all your oil passages will be clean, cam bearings can be installed. With out any slug in the engine your oil will stay clean longer. In the end you will have a better engine.

In a perfect world that would be best.

But in best opinion, the engine is only about 60k miles and I routinely changed oil/filter and used Seafoam treatments every so often. In short, I shouldn't have much if any build up in the passages. Since then my oil stays a nice golden brown for a good while.

So I am going to pass on the hot tank. When I hone the cylinder walls there will be a good kerosene flush following.

The block exterior is already really clean. I spent a long day crawling around the block with heavy degreaser, a tooth brush and a water hose to rinse (long day). That was a few months ago during the beginning of my turbo build.

In short, the engine is in great condition already. But the damn valve seat falling out and pounding piston#6 makes me question the rod bearings, wrist pin and main bearings.

So it is more or less an opportunity to replace pistons/rings for stronger and replace bearings and wrist pin just in case the impacting damaged them. I already have the replacement head mildly ported to match the other. I'm pretty sure the wrist pin is strong enough to handle the abuse it took but the bearings worry me.

And by all means, I am not trying to 'know more' then what I am told. I know hot tanking the block and having it pro-bored/honed would be best, but budget is a little tight after having to purchase a new head, piston set, moly rings, rod bearings, main bearings, ridge reamer, ring compressor, assembly lube, gaskets, ect.... It really adds up big time. Especially if I decide to go forged pistons.



What I really need to know is how to remove the Oil Pan Bolts that are hard to get too.