95 3.1 Fuel Probs

[Pretty Boy]

Ok so i picked this ga up for 200 bucks and it hasn't been ran in 2 years.
The guy i got this car from said he was driving it back and forth to work he was doing down the hwy and all of a sudden ALL The lights on the dash came on so he got it towed home and said the hell with it and bought a new car so this is the pics of the car and also a vid of what i'm having probs with right now. its fuel delivery but i can't seem to find the relays in the book. Can you guys please help me out? Thanks

[Skeith]

one of those is probably it. Not overly familiar with the 3100, but my 3.1 MPFI has the fuel pump relay grouped with two that controll the rad fans on the passenger side fender. The grouping of 3 in the vid suggests that those might be them. Is there a fuse block near by?

Comparing the wireing diagrams in the book they are verry similar. the pump is protected by a 20A fuse that should be in a fuse block near the relays (my relays are in the fuse block) should be labeled Fuel/ECM or similar. If there is a fuse block near by it should be there.

There should be two fuse blocks, one near the battery where the pos cable terminates and the other fuse block is usually on the passenger side near the fender or firewall.

check the fuse, if there is power test for power at the relay to eliminate a broken wire as a cause, if that checks swap one of your fan relays for the pump relay and see if it fires up. Relays should be the same. Dont crank it, you should hear the pump prime when the key is turned on (without starting the engine).

Is your battery dead? seems to be cranking slowly.

pump is priming, check the fule pressure at your fuel rail there should be a capped valve thats accessable, get a fuel pressure tester. If there is pressure but the engine still wont start it could be a clogged fuel line, filter or a failing pump limiting fuel volume.


ps, thought I heard it sputter there for a couple sec in the vid when cranking it.

[Azrael]

One of those relays is for the fuel pump. The others are for the cooling fan, a/c compressor system, and HVAC blower motor. An easy way to test the pump is to find a lone red wire that isn't connected to anything on the opposite (driverside) corner of those relays. Temporarily supply 12v to it and the pump should start. Fuse block is on the driverside of the dash, accessible with the door open.

[Pretty Boy]

battery is fully charged! Car cranks slow cause it is kinda rusty on the belt and pully's it speeds up after a bit of cranking. ok i'll check the relays and swap them around. There is NO fuel pressure at the fuel rail cause i'm not getting any fuel up there yet. and yes i did check the valve.

[Axe_1]

Hi PB, did those relays have a cover over them? Our '96 Olds 3800 has them labeled on the bottom side of the cover. I can't remember if my GA does or not.

As long as those relays have the same part number on them I would switch them around to see if the pump starts to work. You may also want to mark them 1,2,3, so you know where they started out. Turn the heater blower motor on and remove them one at a time. When the blower stops you have identified one of the three, plus you can test the other two in that spot to see if they are still good. You can now test the other two spots with the one relay that is known to be good.

It's also very possible that he parked the car because the fuel pump died causing it to stall while driving on the hwy. That would have made all the lights come on. You may want to open the fuel line at the filter to test since you are working outside. (Under the car in front of the gas tank, about halfway between the rear wheels on my '02, but on the side along the frame near the rear wheel on older models). It's a silver can about the size as a Campbell's Soup can, with a fuel line going into each end.

I would be careful that it's not under pressure and spray in your eyes, open the INLET side of the filter (coming from the tank), crank the engine and check to see if it pumped any fuel. Actually just turning the key to ON should tell you.

I you do get fuel then I would install a new filter. It's not a bad idea to install a new filter either way, but I would test the pump with it unhooked to see if that was the only problem. Installing a new one is like getting a $10 insurance policy.

Let us know what you find...

Axe

[60dgrzbelow0]

PB... Whenever a vehicle has been sitting for as long as your new find has been dormant... the gasoline basically loses its original "punch" and should probably be pumped out into remote cans and replaced with some fresh fuel... perhaps even higher octane than listed for the stock engine. The same can be said for the fuel pump and fuel injectors as well. In the case of the EFIs ...the left over fuel inside the rail can congeal around the small 10 Micron Filter baskets nested inside the EFIS and form a kind of gummy varnish. Likewise, the log shaped nylon screen fuel filter attached to your fuel pump pick up tube can get just as gummy and clogged with all the crap and the water that condensed inside the fuel tank and settled on the bottom of the otherwise "bricked" car over the last two years. If you can drain the fuel, change out the fuel filter as well and add some fresher gasoline...include a large dose of Chevron Techron in the mix and let it sit for a day or so to work its way inside the nylon screen and fuel pump. Charge up that battery and/or borrow a back up that you can use while trying to get the car started. Stagger or cycle your start attempts to avoid overheating the starter motor and adding to your problems. It will help with all the internal friction caused by the residual rusting inside many of the cylinder walls if you change out the old, tired oil and oil filter and use Mobil 1 instead of any cheap oil. One last idea... Pull all of the electrical connectors under the hood one at a time and spray them down outside first then inside with a good de-greaser solvent that won't damage your wiring and connectors and plug them back in nice and tight... Judging from the "Squirrels Nest" that has piled up near the hood bracket wells... the electrical connectors may have corroded during the same time frame, well enough to break down any good contacts.

[Rootie524]

when you turn the key to the "on" position do you hear the pump turn on? and like 60*below said, the fuel does go bad over time. especially two years. even if you get it to work with the current gas, i would take it out and replace it will new gas. your fuel filter probably could use replacing too. if you check fuses and what not and it still doesnt work check fuel pressure at the rail, that way you can eliminate a few things and narrow it down to injectors and maybe spark.

sorry if i repeated something that was already mentioned..i kinda just skimmed through this.

[Pretty Boy]

Ok so i swapped relays around and now i got fuel up to the fuel rail which i didn't have be4. Its like bearly spilling out as i oppened the fuel valve tho. Yes its CRAP gas you can smell it it stinks. does need to be changed. As for the fuel filter if i could get it off i would change it anyways cause someday this is going to be my DD. I"m just trying to get it to start and run for a min or 2 just to see if i need to replace the motor or not. could it be a WEAK fp?

[Axe_1]

Could be weak. Most just die all at once, immediately after filling the tank, but they do get weak sometimes.

Could be a clogged filter or bad regulator. If you can get access to a fuel pressure gauge that connects to the port on the fuel line you could diagnose or eliminate the fuel pump. It's a great idea to change the fuel filter if you can, I would also take that opportunity to pump the tank out into a can or oil pan while the flter is off.

Axe

[Pretty Boy]

Ok thanks

[60dgrzbelow0]

Ok so i swapped relays around and now i got fuel up to the fuel rail which i didn't have be4. Its like bearly spilling out as i oppened the fuel valve tho. Yes its CRAP gas you can smell it it stinks. does need to be changed. As for the fuel filter if i could get it off i would change it anyways cause someday this is going to be my DD. I"m just trying to get it to start and run for a min or 2 just to see if i need to replace the motor or not. could it be a WEAK fp?

It is best not to be too hasty with the engine change out idea... You should expect this motor to be suffering a myriad of little problems that may smooth out when the engine warms up for around 10-15 minutes while the crusted up spark plugs get hot and burn cleaner and all the oil and old gas that leaked down from old Valve Guide seals gets burned off... The exhaust will smell like someone threw Hecksher's Pet Goat on the BBQ until things normalize and the fresh fuel gets flowing. Please keep the engine RPM lower than 1,500 because the rings were stuck in one place on the cylinder walls in various positions for all six cylinders and in all probability... have lighted rusted in place prior to your turning the engine over. If you ramp the RPM up too suddenly before they have a chance to loosen up and flex again...you could crack the rings that have been stuck in the piston grooves for such a long time and ruin the engine. The most definitive indicators of whether this sleepy little V-6 can be salvaged will be the Oil Pressure you can see at idle for the time of this 'Light Break-In" and later... Compression tests... dry at first and wet if necessary to identify any "Weak Sisters" among the cylinders. Being patient and thoughtful and cautious might pay you dividends and manage to keep you from adding 10-40,000 miles of damage wear on that engine ...even before you have even has a chance to release the Emergency Brake ...and and test drive the car!

[Pretty Boy]

It is best not to be too hasty with the engine change out idea... You should expect this motor to be suffering a myriad of little problems that may smooth out when the engine warms up for around 10-15 minutes while the crusted up spark plugs get hot and burn cleaner and all the oil and old gas that leaked down from old Valve Guide seals gets burned off... The exhaust will smell like someone threw Hecksher's Pet Goat on the BBQ until things normalize and the fresh fuel gets flowing. Please keep the engine RPM lower than 1,500 because the rings were stuck in one place on the cylinder walls in various positions for all six cylinders and in all probability... have lighted rusted in place prior to your turning the engine over. If you ramp the RPM up too suddenly before they have a chance to loosen up and flex again...you could crack the rings that have been stuck in the piston grooves for such a long time and ruin the engine. The most definitive indicators of whether this sleepy little V-6 can be salvaged will be the Oil Pressure you can see at idle for the time of this 'Light Break-In" and later... Compression tests... dry at first and wet if necessary to identify any "Weak Sisters" among the cylinders. Being patient and thoughtful and cautious might pay you dividends and manage to keep you from adding 10-40,000 miles of damage wear on that engine ...even before you have even has a chance to release the Emergency Brake ...and and test drive the car!

Thanks and yes i don't wanna swap it out but if nessary after i do just as you said (was my plan to start with) than i will know where i stand with this car. might get on cl or car-part and just slap in a used motor for a while till i can put together a new one for it.

[Pretty Boy]

Ok so sorry for the late response things have been crazy around here for me. As Well for the car i put a new FP in it and now its got great pressure to the fuel rail. As for the spark plugs and wires i got them out and blasted them were wet with oil put them back in and replaced one spark plug wire broke when i pulled it off. Also replaced the starter it needed it. So after all that it still won't start sounds as if its got a dead or several dead cylinders. What could it be? Maybe a jumped timing chain? Brokin timing chain?

[bszopi]

Could possibly be a broken camshaft. If possible, take off the front valve cover and have someone crank it over while you look at the rockers. If some are moving and some aren't, then its safe to say, your cam has snapped in 2.

[Pretty Boy]

How likley is the cam being brokin?