Coil Pack keeps going bad

[jeffreylane]

Ok, hopefully someone can help me on this one. I have a 99 malibu, 3100, engine swapped for a 2000 model. I started getting alot of hesitation, dieing, etc, especially on warm days. It would die instantly if I turned the A/C on. I swapped crank sensor, cam sensor, egr, tps, intake gaskets ( a couple of times), map sensor, maf sensor, fuel filter, fuel pump, spark plugs, ECM (from tuned by MP Racing, might as well get a good tune while I'm at it) and finally found the problem to be the coil pack (thank goodness for roadside service, saved alot on tows). I replaced the coil pack along with ICM from a unit from a salvage yard. It worked great, could run the air on full blast and it everything was peachy. About 3 months later, I cranked the car, started driving and it felt a little funny, almost as if in limp mode. I made it maybe 500 feet before it started cutting out, dieing, cut cranking back up for a few minutes. Then it was done. I had to call a tow truck. I went the next weekend and got another coil pack (including ICM from a pull-a-part salvage yard). It worked great for another couple of hundred miles, then the same problem. I unhooked the coils, hooked them back up, nothing. I replaced the coil pack yet again, also salvage yard units. They worked great a few hundred miles. I turned my air conditioner on one rainy day driving home. The next morning, same problem. I mention the air conditioner because the last time, after driving the car for about a week, it left us waiting on a tow truck. I tried cranking the car with the air condition on. Not sure if the air conditioner had anything to do with it, but I just remember how originally it would die when turning the air on. Once again, I pulled another coil pack (with ICM) from the salvage yard. I got brave enough to drive it again today. I went for about a 1 mile trip to a store. It cranked fine, drove to the store fine. I came back out and tried to crank it and nothing. The battery cable seemed tight, but after checking it, it cranked right up. Maybe it was paranoia, but it seems to be a little weak,or act a little funny....Anyways, sorry for the long post, but trying to include all the needed info. So any any ideas of what keeps frying my coils. I have not changed my plug wires through this, and that is my next step, but would a bad plug wire kill the coils or ICM? Also it is worth mentioning that I did find in my original search for the problem, the crank sensor wires had melted against the exhaust manifold. When I found it I though surely I found the problem. I wired in new wire, but still getting bad coils. Is it possible that I wired the two wired backwards? would this keep killing the coil or icm? Any help would be greatly appreciated. I've spent more on this car than it's worth, as there are so many they have a low re-sale value on them. It has become personal, and I can't stand the car to become another $500 craigslist malibu needs work listing. There is a lot I want to do to this car and engine to make my daily driver (while I work on my BMW project---argggghhhhh I hate having to drive an unfinished project!). Thanks in advance guys. I don't have alot of hair left to pull out.

[bszopi]

Have you checked all of the engine grounds?

When you replaced the wire from the crank sensor to the ICM, did you ensure it met the 9 twists per foot requirement?

Could it be that you just keep getting crap parts from the junkyard?

[pocket-rocket]

Also it is worth mentioning that I did find in my original search for the problem, the crank sensor wires had melted against the exhaust manifold. When I found it I though surely I found the problem. I wired in new wire, but still getting bad coils. I

When you installed the new wire, did you twist it at all? The CPS wire acts kind of like Cat5 cable for networking, in a sense. Also, if you don't have it twisted like Cat5, it's noise reduction properties go down the tubes. IIRC, it's 9 twists per foot, but more won't hurt anything. I wonder if it picks up enough trash from outside interference if it can trash an ICM.

[jeffreylane]

I do have the crank sensor wire twisted. Not sure the count, but I'm sure it is more than 9 per foot, and I would think near double that. I think that the wire is a little bit longer, maybe by 6" or so, but twisted all the way. It just made sense when I noticed the crank sensor wire melted against the exhaust manifold. I cut the wires and rewired the section below where it burnt, up to the plug to the coil pack. After replacing it, I cranked the car, turned on the air conditioner, and it start right back feeling like it was running on 4 cylinders. then it would die. Turn off the air, and it would run perfect for about 10 miles at a time. I could drive it to work fine (about 8 miles). I could drive it home fine, but any farther and it would start hesitating and cutting out. Then finally it would die and not start until the next day. Then not at all. Replaced coil and it was fine. As far as the ground wire, the one going from the battery looks ok. Seems connected well. Is one of the wires going to the coil a ground wire? So far I've dealt with everything thing this car has thrown at me,including the theft system problem. Speaking of that, I followed the write ups on cutting the wire with the car running to solve the problems. Haven't had a problem with it since. I also want to note, that a couple of weeks ago while under the dash changing the throttle cable (yet another problem I've had to fix) I did see that there was a box for the vibration control for an anti-theft system mounted to the underside of the steering column. I did cut the wires and tape them, hoping maybe this was wired into some anti-start something and may help. But it didn't because it happened again. I appreciate the help.I'm lost on this one.

[60dgrzbelow0]

When you cycle the A/C... do you notice a serious drop in charging voltage (assuming your dash ammeter/voltmeter is an analog device and not just an "Idiot Light"...) The reason for this question is to determine the possibility that the electrical draw is so substantial when the A/C EM clutch engages... that the Alternator "spikes" hard enough in some way while responding...(Bad Rectifier?) and the follow up surge causes your ICM to fail... Is this possible? Are the pulleys on this motor "Stock as a Clock"...or of the Under-Driven flavor?

[jeffreylane]

The pulleys are stock. That could be the case. I will test it this weekend. I'm putting a header on the wife's z24 tomorrow evening after work (and probably finish up on saturday morning). That does sound possible. The only think that would make me think otherwise, was when I was having the problem originally, and trying to figure out what was causing the misfires, I unplugged the a/c electrical connection. This seemed to work for a while, then later on started doing the same thing after running for a while. This was in the winter, so I would have not been using the a/c then. But the A/C does affect it. For some reason I haven't even though to watch the voltage gauge while turning on the a/c I'll have to give that a try. The alternator has been replaced, probably about a year ago, but doesn't have a lot of miles on it. I'll let you know what i find out this weekend.

[pocket-rocket]

Actually, the A/C does cycle on and off any time you have your HVAC set to Defrost. I've always believed it to be to keep seals oiled and to draw moisture out of the air.

[jeffreylane]

Ok, I tried to check the voltage, only to realize that I don't have a gauge, only an idiot light. I cranked the car and watched the coil pack. I started seeing an arc coming out of the top of the coil plug boot where it connects to the coil (on #6). I turned it off and waited for it to get dark to check again to see if there were any others sparking. I was thinking maybe there was a bar plug wire on 6 causing it to short (it always seems I'm close to the answer, just before being put back into place by my malibu). Ok, dark outside, time to check it out. I got a real unexpected surprise. The car did nothing when turning the key. Acted like the battery was completely dead. Ok, thought maybe a battery cable came loose. checked them, and they were both tight. I picked up the battery slightly and wiggled it, along with the attached battery cable. Guess what, the car cranked. Not when turning the key, it just cranked, no key in it. I took the key out, and it still ran, while in the off position. key in, key out, turn the key, none of that mattered, it just kept running. I was getting ready to pull the fuel pump fuse, then I turned the key a little more than your supposed to, engaging the starter, and it cut off????????????????????? This has really gotten me confused. I have replaced the key switch already as well. I changed it about 7 months ago after the key started hanging in the ignition. I had also though this could be the cause of the original problem, maybe the key was turning off taking power away. Changing the keyswitch did not help the coil problem. Any ideas on why this thing cranked when wiggling the battery/cables? I guess my next step will be to wiggle the ground and hot individually to see if I can narrow it down. I just finished pulling the exhaust manifold off my wifes z24 in the dark, so I'll go back to the Malibu tomorrow afternoon. Thanks guys for your help.

[pocket-rocket]

Actually that whole insane span of Twilight Zone you experienced sounds like a bad ignition switch. Not the key portion, but the actual switch that turns circuits on and off with the key. It could actually explain your non run condition too. I've seen some do some strange things. One was in an Envoy. It would be fine until you started it. Once you started it and had it past the run position in the start position and returned it back to run, none of the gauges worked and the trans would start out in 2nd or 3rd gear. While the new switch came in (had to order it) I jumpered a hot on the gauge circuit (which apparently powered part of something to do with the transmission) fuse with another fuse so it would work out. I figured that was better (since I was using the fused side so it was safe) better than changing a torque convertor down the road from the 3rd gear starts, especially since this is a 4wd model.

[jeffreylane]

When I changed the ignition out before, while searching for the problem, I had replaced the entire switch. I mean it is possible that one has a problem now. There are tornado warnings/watches for most of the day today, so not sure if I'll get a chance to work on it this weekend. Soon as I get the opportunity, I"ll got out and play with it a little more and see what I can figure out.

[96lumina]

I'm actually surprised you still had the car, LOL...it sounds to me like your alternator is making way too much power, this would explain the electrical problems you are having, including the time when the A/C is on...check around the battery for exposed wires that might have rubbed against the battery which would cause the car to continue to run on its own...even though you got a new alternator doesn't mean it's working right...I once went thru 3 alternators(brand new off the shelf) before finding a good one...I would have it shecked cuz it sounds like the internal regulator is not working right...this would cause your coil packs to keep going out...as for the starting problem that is another problem you have...keep us informed

[jeffreylane]

This has become very personal,lol. I have celebrated victory of figuring out the problem at least 3 or 4 times now only to knocked back down and left stranded by this car. I hate this car. I don't have a lot of desire to own this car right now, lol. Otherwise it is a paperweight in my driveway. I cant get any money out of it like it is now. I don't want to lie to someone and give the problem to someone else, I know how it is for the family to be stranded. The other option would be to sell it as parts or part it out, and craigslist is full of them for $500. I'll keep trying for a little while longer, not yet ready to be beaten......
With that said, I havent had time to get back out and mess with it anymore. I spent the weekend putting a header on the wife's car. The exhaust had broken (Was running straight out of the down pipe) where the po had put in a piece of flex pipe instead of a real down pipe. Figured I might as well upgrade It was fun on my back outside during some of the worst weather we have had in TN in a while. It was fun on my back under the car in water, tissue in my ears to block out the nearby tornado siren. I've been recovering since,lol. The alternator would make a lot of since. There has to be something causing the voltage to spike bad enough to destroy the coil or ICM. I looked around briefly, I noticed that where the hot wire goes eyelet on the back of the alternator is, it had been broken off when putting it on, and the wire was just tightened under the nut. I did the repair in a parking lot. The rubber boot had worked its way off of it. I didn't see any wires touching it. And there were no uninsulated wire nearby. If life doesn't throw anything else my way, I'm going out tomorrow after work to try and figure out what it was that caused the car to start when I wiggled the battery cables. Sounds like some kind of exposed wire somewhere.

[jeffreylane]

ok, I think I have it figured out now..... I cranked the car and turned the air conditioner on. Turn the lights on as well to give it some extra draw. Car ran fine for about 10 min or so. I was waiting to hear the coil popping, but instead I heard a low wine sound from time to time after about 10 min. I noticed the ac compressor was freezing momentarily then breaking loose, then freezing again, and the belt just slipping around the pulley. When it would do this, the motor would stutter (just like the motor was doing originally). Another good freeze up, the motor hiccuped a few good times, then the coil pack / ICM went bad. Would not start back up. It was worth a set of coils to see the problem finally. Good news it I have another a/c compressor here. I'll put that, as well as pick up another set of coils for it, and replace it all this weekend. Hopefully this big saga will come to an end. I"ll let you guys know what happens after I change everything. I guess with the belt slipping and all, it was doing crazy things with the alternator.

[pocket-rocket]

Interesting... I wonder how that had an effect on the coils/ICM. At first I thought brown out like conditions, but you have the battery to keep the cars voltage up... Very strange, but interesting at the same time, lol. I hope this is the fixer for you.

[60dgrzbelow0]

FWIW...

I know that generally speaking... Sex, Politics and Religion and the Paranormal are eschewed on the forum... but I'm hoping that this slightly odd suggestion might have some merit and serve you well and truly in "Cleansing the Astral Field"... But keep in mind that I always have my actions and principled thinking very well "grounded" (pun intended). In this case, I will suggest something I encountered as an investigator that was kind of freaky...but worked. This had to do with a crime scene being "Visited" by some unseen entity that quite successfully was scaring the sh*t out of the survivors. The solution came in the form of a gifted elderly woman who surprised everybody by walking quietly through the house with an un-opened box of Morton Salt under one arm until she found the right "place" where all the odd goings on were taking place. Then... after mumbling her way through a basic Christian prayer... she promptly opened the seal on the salt box and poured a small quantity of the chemical compound in all four corners of the room. Then she smiled and was about to leave when I stopped her and basically asked, "WTF was all that about, Ma'am?" She gave me a knowing smile and said, "The Salt is PURE...and with God's Blessings... will work best in cleansing and purifying anything unclean from what happened here..." and then she left... That night I got a call form the survivor family and the good news was that all was finally quiet and they were very much relieved and in need of a good night's sleep... So ...I don't know... I suspect spilling some salt around your garage might not hurt...as long as it is not allowed to get wet and become an electrolyte...