Was running great.... now won't start

[Syclone1452]

I finally finished replacing the head gaskets in my son's girlfriend's '95 Camaro 3.4. The car started fine. I let it sit in the driveway and idle for 20-30 minutes. The car warmed-up and I saw/heard nothing out of the ordinary, so I took it to Wal*Mart [where every Camaro owner goes on a test drive]. Everything seemed great for the 15 minutes it took to get to Wal*Mart. I wasn't really stressing the car... maybe 15-20% throttle... got up to 60 mph once.

When it was time to come home [20-30 minutes later], the car started right up, but had a really poor idle. I put it in gear, and it died. I had to crank for a bit to get it running, but nce I got moving, all was okay for the trip home.

When I got to my neighborhood, I came to the first STOP sign. The car died....

I checked under the hood... no bar-b-que'd plug wires or anything like that.

I got in and started cranking it. It sounded like it wanted to start... but couldn't/wouldn't. I tried cranking in clear-flood mode... it would fire a few more cylinders, but then just go back to spinning

I fought with it for 5 minutes or so, and i was finally able to get it started. It was coughing and sputtering all the way to the house. I parked it and walked into the house... I'd had enough for one day.

This morning, I needed to move it, so I could go to church. It wouldn't start. I had to push it out of the way

On the way home from church, I picked-up a can of injector cleaner... the can that you connect to the fuel rail and just run the car for 15 minutes. My kit is 3M, but I could only find BWD cleaner. It wouldn't work with my hose... plus, you're supposed to connect it to a car that has been warmed-up. I can only dream of starting this car right now

This afternoon, I removed the plugs. Five of them were really wet. I sprayed them down with brake cleaner and re-installed them. It still wouldn't start. I would fire a couple times, then just sit there and spin. I removed #2 [easiest] and it was soaked, again.

Do you think I have injectors that are stuck open or leaking?
I connected a fuel pressure gauge to the fuel rail, and the pressure would drop a bit when I turned off the key, but never really dropped to zero... only about 20 psi.

I guess I could always remove the fuel rail from the intake and just see what the injectors do... drip, spray, leak, or other...

I'm really getting tired of looking at this car in my shop. It's not even a color I like. <grin>

Should I use something other than brake cleaner to clean the plugs?

If it's not the injectors, what could it be?

[60dgrzbelow0]

Pull the small vacuum line from the side of the "Black Top Hat" Fuel Pressure Regulator on the top front of the Fuel Injector Fuel Rail and see if any fuel leaks out... or if there is a heavy smell of gasoline... if gasoline is present in the line... then there is a leak in the circular fuel pressure regulator rubberized cloth bladder under that little hat and needs a replacement kit that RockAuto sells for around $70.00.

[60dgrzbelow0]

This link leads to a more comprehensive description of the problem... and how the fix can best be done...

http://60degreev6.com/forum/f97/bad-fuel-pressure-regulater-t44859

[1988GTU]

Check for spark.

[deathamatend]

I would double check all of the grounds and connectors. Then check for spark and see if the spark is consistant across all the cylinders. Was the check engine light lit when you drove BACK from Wal-Mart. Possible camshaft and/or crankshaft position sensor, when they go bad = no spark. Fuel pressure seems ok should be 36-42 PSI with key on engine off. Key off there will be a slight fuel pressure drop and yours is about right. Fuel pump should run for a few seconds and then stop. Then you might want to check the compression on all the cylinders.

[Syclone1452]

The FPR is okay. Pressure is good, and no fuel is coming out of vacuum connection.

I don't have any codes or SES light.

I'm pretty sure I have spark, 'cause it wants to start.. I hear it firing, but I just think it's flooding... not sure how consistent the spark is, though

How do I check the coils and ICM?

[1988GTU]

pull a plug with wire and ground it out. Give it a crank!

[deathamatend]

If the spark is weak or intermittent, you can get the symptoms that you are describing. I would seriously run a compression check. If there was a head gasket sealing issue when you drove to Wal-Mart and that let go when you started it and drove back home you have to eliminate all causes one by one. You have verified fuel volume and pressure. Verify spark and voltage, if ignition spark is weak, engine compression will blow it out like a candle. Today's engines need 40,000 volts or you could have the problem like you describe. To visually check the spark like '1988GTU' said, it must be a bright blue arc and make a sizzle sound and/or pop, when you jump it to ground. I would strongly suggest that you test one of the spark plug wires from each coil pack. You can also remove coil packs and module assembly then take it to a store like O'Reilly's and they can bench test it for proper function. Hope you get it running and let us know what's happening.-D

[60dgrzbelow0]

I finally finished replacing the head gaskets in my son's girlfriend's '95 Camaro 3.4. The car started fine. I let it sit in the driveway and idle for 20-30 minutes. The car warmed-up and I saw/heard nothing out of the ordinary, so I took it to Wal*Mart [where every Camaro owner goes on a test drive]. Everything seemed great for the 15 minutes it took to get to Wal*Mart. I wasn't really stressing the car... maybe 15-20% throttle... got up to 60 mph once.

Returning to the scene of the crime...Could you amplify on how you did this repair?.. looking of course at any issues with the type and kind of gaskets...and whether they can by laid on the block inverted and perhaps leak as a result...torque pattern, procedures, torque values and degree of rotation to the point of yield and final bolt stretch...etc., would be very helpful to know... It might put you in mind of something that was overlooked.

[deathamatend]

Returning to the scene of the crime...Could you amplify on how you did this repair?.. looking of course at any issues with the type and kind of gaskets...and whether they can by laid on the block inverted and perhaps leak as a result...torque pattern, procedures, torque values and degree of rotation to the point of yeild and final bolt stretch...etc., would be very helpful to know... It might put you in mind os something that was overlooked

Just run a compression test. Everyone sells a test gauge. You could even get a loaner from auto parts store-check around. Be sure to do a compression test with all the spark plugs removed and only the compression gauge screwed in. This test will eliminate any problems with head gaskets, valves, etc. Then you can check for other probelms.

[pocket-rocket]

Just run a compression test. Everyone sells a test gauge. You could even get a loaner from auto parts store-check around. Be sure to do a compression test with all the spark plugs removed and only the compression gauge screwed in. This test will eliminate any problems with head gaskets, valves, etc. Then you can check for other probelms.

Well... I had one that would only leak when hot but held pressure just fine with a cooling system pressure tester when cold as far as a leak from a cylinder to the cooling system was concerned.

[60dgrzbelow0]

Heads Re-Surfaced... ? Valve Job Done on Them?

[deathamatend]

Well... I had one that would only leak when hot but held pressure just fine with a cooling system pressure tester when cold as far as a leak from a cylinder to the cooling system was concerned.

Yes, I agree with you, but one like that, out of, lets say 100 gasket jobs doen't mean he should not test for compression. It really shouldn't matter where it is leaking to. Only that it is a leak. Compression test eliminates anything mechanical, valves, and any gaskets or seals. He also stated it will not start, hot or cold now. So: 1) spark 2) fuel 3) compression. Give it a try. You would be amazed at what this eliminates as a problem Syclone.

[pocket-rocket]

Yes, I agree with you, but one like that, out of, lets say 100 gasket jobs doen't mean he should not test for compression. It really shouldn't matter where it is leaking to. Only that it is a leak. Compression test eliminates anything mechanical, valves, and any gaskets or seals. He also stated it will not start, hot or cold now. So: 1) spark 2) fuel 3) compression. Give it a try. You would be amazed at what this eliminates as a problem Syclone.

I wasn't disagreeing saying he shouldn't do a compression test. I was just throwing out there that the test could possibly not show which cylinder is the culprit if it only leaks hot like this one did. This one had a crack in the fire ring right by a coolant port.

[Syclone1452]

I've been busy all week; I haven't had a chance to even attempt to start the car.
Tomorrow morning, I'll pull all the plugs and do a compression check. It'll be so easy; I can't justify not doing it.

You ought to try removing plugs from an LT1 f-body.. or worse... a Syclone <shudder>

If the compression test looks good, I'll connect it to a scan tool and see if the computer indicates any odd sensor readings. A freaked-out sensor could cause the computer to flood the engine... possibly?

If everything looks good after that... I'm getting a couple sticks of dynamite <grin>