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  • Coolant in Oil - Strange symptoms

    1996 Grand Prix SE 3100 v6. body 108k miles, engine 58k miles.

    The crankcase is good, the oil looks completely normal since I drained it.

    However, when I removed the Oil Filter, I had a mix of good oil with the light chocolate colored oil, indicative of coolant mixing with oil.

    Though, it was swirled. I did have a LIM gasket that was on the brink of rupturing. It busted upon removal but all indications point to it working up until removal.

    There wasn't any light chocolate colored oil anywhere else. It was only found in the oil filter. Strange indeed.

    Either something very strange is going on or I happened to shut the engine off seconds into a coolant leak into the crankcase. But there was none to be found in the crankcase when drained. And the drained oil had sat for a few weeks in a clear container, no seperation showing there is no water mixed in.

    Either I am the luckiest man alive who happened to rebuild his car seconds into a coolant rupture or there is something else nefarious going on. Like a crack somewhere in the block, that would really suck. But I don't think that is the case.

    Any one have any input into this strange phenomenon?

    update: In any case, I have new cylinder heads and all new gaskets. So the only problem that would cause it to reoccur would be a cracked block. Though, IIRC, a cracked block is really rare. So I should be fine. This just puzzles me as it was only in the filter.

    strange indeed

    Update 2: Lifters are cleaned. I took them apart and soaked them in degreaser, spent some time with fine tools and cleaned every inch. Now they are spotless, like new and compress well, smooth. Lifters had no coolant signs.

    Heads had no coolant signs except for a little green junk on the valves. So probably leaked a little coolant into the chamber.

    But, new heads, valves, valve seals, springs, ect. No signs of damage on the pistons or the walls. The chamber isn't oval and no scores or damage. Every indication says the block is good.

    The camshaft rotates freely. I can not find any damage or signs of coolant leaks in the oil except for the filter.

    This is bugging me. I did NOT want to see coolant in the filter right now.

    I should be ok but what should I do to be sure, besides change the oil 3x's every 10 miles?
    Last edited by Schmieder; 02-18-2010, 11:51 AM.

  • #2
    Should be good on the bearings if it was only minor and caught in the filter. Mine was making mayo under the oil cap for several months (who knows how long before that) before I caught it, figured it out, and fixed it. That was at like 115k and I'm deep into the 200k's now and run the piss out of the motor so you will probably be fine. I've recently switched from cheap oil to vavoline max life semi-syn and the motor seems to like it better. The way I run the motor so hard it does make a difference as come oil change time the oil isn't broke down as much as normal oil. I used to be able to feel a change in vibration from old to fresh oil when reving it in the pedal, and now I don't. yeah call me crazy but I DO notice every detail about how it runs... Plus the stuff just feels slimy/coats better. You can feel it on your skin compared to normal used oil that feels like water... LOL
    sigpic New 2010 project (click image)
    1994 3100 BERETTA. 200,000+ miles
    16.0 1/4 mile when stock. Now ???
    Original L82 Longblock
    with LA1, LX9, LX5 parts
    Manifold-back 2.5" SS Mandrel Exhaust. Hardware is SS too.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by IsaacHayes View Post
      Plus the stuff just feels slimy/coats better. You can feel it on your skin compared to normal used oil that feels like water... LOL
      safety note: used oil is a known carcinogen... try not to play with it too much...

      1995 Monte Carlo LS 3100, 4T60E...for now, future plans include driving it until the wheels fall off!
      Latest nAst1 files here!
      Need a wiring diagram for any GM car or truck from 82-06(and 07-08 cars)? PM me!

      Comment


      • #4
        Yeah, but I don't wear arm length rubber gloves when changing oil.... LOL
        sigpic New 2010 project (click image)
        1994 3100 BERETTA. 200,000+ miles
        16.0 1/4 mile when stock. Now ???
        Original L82 Longblock
        with LA1, LX9, LX5 parts
        Manifold-back 2.5" SS Mandrel Exhaust. Hardware is SS too.

        Comment


        • #5
          Ok, you guys made my day. I feel better now.

          I took care of the car well, oil changes with filter changes on schedule. Fuel filters on schedule.

          And I do beat the car, just not too hard. My wife won't let me, lol. Just kidding.

          Is it ok for the camshaft to rotate free but stop spinning the moment my hands release from the camshaft? The cam feels real nice when rotating it, as it should, but I'm not sure if it should continue to spin like a bike tire would? With pushrods, lifters and timing chain removed, of course.

          Any advice on camshaft timing? I haven't checked the thread I started on it yet. I feel 9 degrees advanced should be ok. As I have heavy duty head gaskets (felpro) and not sure of the thickness but, they feel thicker. I want lots of low end torque and let the turbo add power in the higher RPM. I plan to tune the trans shift points as well where I feel the most power is through the butt dyno.

          Turbo Update: I have the oil pan drilled and tapped. It was nerve wracking but I pushed on. After threading in the return adapter, I feel it is well sealed. Downpipe is near complete, about 1' to go to bottom frame. That is where I am placing the flex pipe (8" long) + 4" for the mandrel bend.

          I really hit the math hard this build up. My angles are beautiful. The pipe runs through the engine bay like a sweet goddess half dressed, very attractive. I couldn't help but to stand there looking at it for a half an hour, lol. I'm in love with this turbo. Can't wait to drive it soon. I'm burning a Pantera CD for the first drive after a basc tune. Gonna rip up the parkway....hehehe. I even budgeted about $150 just in case I get a speeding ticket. I'M READY!!!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by robertisaar View Post
            safety note: used oil is a known carcinogen... try not to play with it too much...

            After having Lymphoma a few years back and the hellish treatments, I am pretty cautious and clean about my work.

            Oncologist says I will live my full life w/o years or health lost. Full recovery and cured. Only 2-3% chance it will return.

            So yeah, I hear ya. Don't mess with carcinogens. I did and payed the price for it. I was an industrial painter years back. I quit that crap.

            Comment


            • #7
              There is oil around the cam shaft, so that's going to be thick and viscous and should stop the spinning pretty quick. It's not like it's on ball bearings where there is little contact area. It's on sleeve bearings and that's a lot of surface area for the "sticky" oil to create some drag.

              LOL about the CD. That is one thing I'll have to work on in the Orange car. There won't be a huge amp for the mids and highs, or a sub or anything, but I'll want some tunes. But the exhaust will be loud. I do love cranking music though and hammering it (the blue car) everywhere. I find some music I listen to more in the car than others. Pantera I don't listen much in the car anymore. Lately it's been Godsmack, HellYeah, Sevendust, and Sepultura.
              sigpic New 2010 project (click image)
              1994 3100 BERETTA. 200,000+ miles
              16.0 1/4 mile when stock. Now ???
              Original L82 Longblock
              with LA1, LX9, LX5 parts
              Manifold-back 2.5" SS Mandrel Exhaust. Hardware is SS too.

              Comment


              • #8
                You mentioned that the car was sitting for awhile. Maybe it was just condensation that built up.
                1995 Grand Am SE

                Comment


                • #9
                  The cam sounds like it turns like it should. Just make sure you have absolutely no vertical motion in it or the block needs new cam bearings.
                  -60v6's 2nd Jon M.
                  91 Black Lumina Z34-5 speed
                  92 Black Lumina Z34 5 speed (getting there, slowly... follow the progress here)
                  94 Red Ford Ranger 2WD-5 speed
                  Originally posted by Jay Leno
                  Tires are cheap clutches...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Schmieder View Post
                    As I have heavy duty head gaskets (felpro) and not sure of the thickness but, they feel thicker.

                    Felpro is not a HD replacement for stock.

                    I had better luck with OEM GM gaskets than I did with Felpro's... and now I have the true HD replacement, a set of MLS ones from Cometic

                    Got Lope?
                    3500 Build, Comp XFI Cam 218/230 .050 dur .570/.568 lift 113LSA
                    Fully Balanced, Ported, 3 Angle Valve Job, 65mm TCE TB, S&S Headers.
                    Stage-1 Raybestos/Alto 4t60e-HD, EP LSD, 3.69FDR
                    12.61@105 Epping NH Oct 2015 Nitrous 100shot (melted plugs) 13.58@98.8 N/A 3200LBS

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 3400-95-Modified View Post
                      Felpro is not a HD replacement for stock.

                      I had better luck with OEM GM gaskets than I did with Felpro's... and now I have the true HD replacement, a set of MLS ones from Cometic
                      I can't argue the MLS Gaskets. I greatly considered them but funds changed my mind for now. I would like to get Steel gaskets that are thicker to retard the timing slightly and reduce CR for the turbo. But not by much to throw out the Head and LIM alignment. With a slight timing retard, I can jump timing up by one tooth and hope I get 6-7 degrees instead of 9. But that is an issue I need to figure more info on. Maybe I'll try the advanced 9 degrees and see if I like it or not. That is if it is not dangerous to the engine. Those are things I need to figure out at the moment.

                      Though, the gaskets are called HD and were more expensive then the standard Felpro Head gaskets for my make/model..ect being sold by Advance Auto Parts.

                      Originally posted by IsaacHayes View Post
                      There is oil around the cam shaft, so that's going to be thick and viscous and should stop the spinning pretty quick. It's not like it's on ball bearings where there is little contact area. It's on sleeve bearings and that's a lot of surface area for the "sticky" oil to create some drag.

                      LOL about the CD. That is one thing I'll have to work on in the Orange car. There won't be a huge amp for the mids and highs, or a sub or anything, but I'll want some tunes. But the exhaust will be loud. I do love cranking music though and hammering it (the blue car) everywhere. I find some music I listen to more in the car than others. Pantera I don't listen much in the car anymore. Lately it's been Godsmack, HellYeah, Sevendust, and Sepultura.
                      Camshaft, that was my impression but I didn't want to assume anything. Thanks for the info.

                      Music, Sepultura is cool. I play metal guitar and have for 16 years now. I have two types of favorites. One is listening and the other is playing on guitar. There are songs I like to play cause its fun but don't listen too often.

                      Fear Factory is lots of fun to play on my 7-string. It is one Hell of a work out, I'm sweating after an hour of jamming Remanufacture, the only great FF album.

                      Originally posted by Azrael View Post
                      You mentioned that the car was sitting for awhile. Maybe it was just condensation that built up.
                      Could water blend with motor oil through sitting? I thought the chocolate color was created when the moisture was blended with the oil.

                      Originally posted by pocket-rocket View Post
                      The cam sounds like it turns like it should. Just make sure you have absolutely no vertical motion in it or the block needs new cam bearings.
                      No play what so ever. She is nice and secure.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Schmieder View Post
                        Fear Factory is lots of fun to play on my 7-string. It is one Hell of a work out, I'm sweating after an hour of jamming Remanufacture, the only great FF album.
                        interestingly enough, i have that album right next to me...
                        Originally posted by Schmieder View Post
                        Could water blend with motor oil through sitting? I thought the chocolate color was created when the moisture was blended with the oil.
                        moisture can find it's way into a motor when it's sitting...
                        1995 Monte Carlo LS 3100, 4T60E...for now, future plans include driving it until the wheels fall off!
                        Latest nAst1 files here!
                        Need a wiring diagram for any GM car or truck from 82-06(and 07-08 cars)? PM me!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by robertisaar View Post


                          moisture can find it's way into a motor when it's sitting...
                          Yeah, that I know. What I was questioning was the mixing with oil. If the moisture would blend to form the chocolate color crap or would it sit seperate as oil and water don't mix well w/o the engine turning to blend it up.

                          Either way, it is only a small bit and i am putting on new heads and gaskets, oil change to quality synthetic and a quality oil filter. Can't remember the name, I'm dog tired right now, but it was the most expensive oil filter available. I believe in high quality maintenance parts, keeps the expensive parts nicer longer. Mobile One, all balck I think.

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                          • #14
                            maybe the filter was good enough to keep all of the mixed oil/coolant inside the filter?
                            1995 Monte Carlo LS 3100, 4T60E...for now, future plans include driving it until the wheels fall off!
                            Latest nAst1 files here!
                            Need a wiring diagram for any GM car or truck from 82-06(and 07-08 cars)? PM me!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by robertisaar View Post
                              maybe the filter was good enough to keep all of the mixed oil/coolant inside the filter?
                              That would seem possible if the leak was caught very early. If so, I consider myself VERY lucky, lol.

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