Question : internal engine damage?

[89z24cavalier]

What kind of damage can happen when water freezes in the block? in october, i swapped a 3.1 in my 89 z24 cavalier and my sister/dad used all the coolant i had in the garage for my car so i used water for the time being, i thought i would be back in a couple of weeks to bring the car to my house (parents live in indiana, i live in michigan. 3hr drive). shit happend and i wasnt able to get back to my parents until december. when i got there, it was the day after a huge ice storm. needless to say the water in my motor was froze and the engine wouldnt crank at all. 3 days later the weather warmed up and i was able to get the car started, but it runs horribly, its hard to start, and it just stops dead in its tracks after a few seconds of running. i was just wanting to know what to expect when i tear the motor down this weekend.

[mongo]

If you are lucky, you haven't cracked the block.... and since you don't mention any leaks, you probably haven't. The heads are a different story. I would inspect them thoroughly.

When it does run, do you get steam from the exhaust? Do you see bubbles in the coolant (water)? Are you getting water in the oil?

[89z24cavalier]

i didnt notice any external leaks or cracks and my freeze plugs are intact. i drained the oil pan and got 2.5 gallons of "chocolate milk" out. i didnt notice steam from the exhaust because i was always in the car with my foot on the gas trying to keep it running. two bolts are missing from my upper intake (lost them during the swap) and a couple of friends noticed steam/white smoke coming out of the holes.

[mongo]

Ok... so at the very least your head gaskets are blown. Freeze plugs seldom perform as advertised so you kind of need to forget about using them as any type of indicator. All you can do is take it apart and check the thin areas between the coolant and oil passages and hope for the best..... but expect the worst.

[89z24cavalier]

the worst being cracked block?

[mongo]

I am thinking your block may be OK. I am not 100% familiar with the freezing properties of the 60 degree family but as a rule, the outside walls of the block are the thinnest with the greatest unsupported surface area. It should bust a wall between the cylinders on the outside of the engine before it busted towards the inside. I really think your heads may have taken the brunt of the abuse. I've never let and engine freeze before but I have seen plenty of cracked blocks that others have let freeze. They pretty much all cracked on the outside between cylinders. Since you are getting water inside the motor but not seeing cracks on the block, I would inspect the heads and intake thoroughly. I would also (while it is apart) fill the coolant passages in the block and see if any water leaks inside the block...

[camaro688]

A 2002 monte I bought had straight water in it(I did not know) and in november when we had a couple freezing temp days. I started it up not knowing what happend days later,freeze plug blew out in rear. I replaced and retarted in shop,ran bad and misfires. I pulled spark plugs and found water in cylinder #4. I had to tow car home because the dealer I worked at closed down. When I finally got motivated after loosing my job after 12 years,I pulled the cylinder head and found the blocked cracked but If I didnt find anything other than the intake gaskets that were leaking and cracked I would be risking not knowing if there are any small cracks in heads or block due to the water.Pull plugs and check or use scan tool to locate misfire,then pull head and decide to roll the dice. I still cant get over the idiot had straight water in the whole system on the monte I bought. I thought that was a thing of the past. In 16 years I have never seen it but theres always a
first time and at my cost!

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

I've had friends bring me 2 older 2.8's that froze and both cracked in the inside of the V above the lifter bores.

Your engine has also seized repeatedly by the water in the oil (hence the stopping in its tracks) so the crank is likely damaged at several journals.

Freezing water can cause dimensional changes to the block before any leaking cracks develop. This can cause cylinder bore distortion and and piston seizure or ring seal problems. Also there may be cracks in it that are not broken through to the point where they leak, but they are a weakened area.

If I were in your situation, I would locate another core engine to rebuild. Save the trouble and worry!

I still cant get over the idiot had straight water in the whole system on the monte I bought.

Happens all the time in the south - it gets cold enough to crack an engine probably 2 or 3 days out of the year. Every cold spell we have, you see a run on engines at the salvage yards. Usually it is the "disposable" engines such as the kia and hyundai and other cheap car makes that get popped!

Respectfully,
David

[89z24cavalier]

I tore the motor down but i did not find any cracks in the block or the heads. what i did find however was half the teeth broken off on my oil pump drive, a broken tooth on the cam, a twisted oil pump shaft, and all the engine bearings were toast. what i can figure is when the engine "froze", it was actually the oil pump not allowing the engine to crank. i forced the engine to start and when i did, i broke the teeth off the oil pump drive after twisting the shaft. so when i was running the motor, i was running it on NO OIL PRESSURE. when the motor stopped in its tracks, it actually siezed up, but i would be able to force it running again and that toasted my bearings. i already had another motor standing by and im glad i did.

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

Man - that is too bad, but I appreciate your letting us know what happened.

David