95 Beretta 3100 no spark / crank sensor?

[freekie]

OK Im working on a friends 95 Beretta v6 3100 for not starting. There is no spark. Im getting 12v to the Ignition Control Module (ICM) when key is turned on. According to the wireing diagram the Purple and Yellow wire that connect up at the ICM are for the crankshaft sensor. Now I followed the wires down they go between the back of the engine and the transmission and the wire just ends at an empty plug not plugged into anything. Now I looked and looked and cant seem to see where it plugs in. Can sombody direct me to where this sensor is?
Also if the purple and yellow goto the crankshaft sensor, then what is the sensor behind the harmonic balancer with the 3 wires?

[IsaacHayes]

Jack up the car right side, remove the passenger wheel, stick your arm either through the tie-rod hole or up/under the control arm area whichever you can get to and feel around on the block. It's the CPS (crank position sensor) that you need to plug that plug into. It's hard to see so you have to do it by feel. I think the plug on it will be facing down, so you will push the plug up into it. Use jack stands and be safe.

Without that 7x CPS you will get no spark as there will be no signal going to the ICM.

The sensor behind the harmonic dampener (3x00's don't have external balancers), is also a CPS. It is 24x resolution, and is used only for idle and below 2000 RPMs. It just helps the computer see a finer resolution so it can run smoother, but the main one is in the block with the yellow/purple wires and without that, the engine won't run. Without the 24x one, it will run but throw a code.

[freekie]

Thanks alot. Now I know why I couldnt see it. It was gone? How could it have just fallen out? The bolt was actually still installed but the entire sensor was gone.

[IsaacHayes]

Maybe someone replaced it but did not install it right??? or attempted to work on it and messed it up? Or someone needed a CPS and stole it? lol

No clue man, your guess is as good as mine.

When buying a new one, DO NOT get it from autozone. Those are cheap and will fail in less than 6months and give you all kinds of headaches.

Get one from Oreillys. BorgWarner I think is the brand I got from there.

[freekie]

Thanks.

I found out after pointing out to my friend that it was missing he goes, OH i had a shop look at it they couldnt figure it out and said it may be timing chain but they didnt fix those. Ive always hated working in things others have started on.

So now im back to square one. I now have spark and its popping back through the throttle body but wont start So,,, guess im checking the timing chain see if it skipped a tooth. If the cam sensor was bad it would still start right? I recall working on a 98 Grand AM with same engine that had a bad cam sensor and it just popped a code.

[1meanz]

my cam position censor is bad but it runs fine, throws a code tho. it does sound like it out of time though. maybe check the plus to, since you was gettin fuel but no spark could be fouled out? dont think that would cause it tho

[IsaacHayes]

Cam sensor just allows it to squirt fuel sequentially. If it's bad/missing it will just revert to multi port batch fire mode like the older 3.1's and 2.8's.

Check to make sure the spark plugs are in the right order first, and report back. Don't go by what the coil packs say as those could have been placed in the wrong spots on the ICM.

Then we can go from there.

[3400-95-Modified]

Looking from the front of the car at the engine, the coil pack numbering for the cylinders are as follows

5-2-3-6-4-1

now the cylinder orientation is as follows.

Firewall
1-3-5
2-4-6
Radiator

Image to help

[freekie]

Thanks. Thats a big help. The back ones are gonna be tough to check. Ill get back with the results. Wont be able to work on it today have a busy schedule.

[3400-95-Modified]

Everyone says that, but I never seem to have an issue doing the rears... they seem very easy to me.

[IsaacHayes]

Thanks for the pic Jon.

Rear's aren't too bad just look at the front, and see how the plugs are angled. The rear will be opposite. if just tracing where the wires go you'll be fine.

It's a pain for me cause I have to take off my strut tower brace. After I do that it's easy.

[96ols60degree]

POPPING THROUGH THE T.B.AND THIS THING JUST STOPPED RUNNING ONE DAY?SOUNDS LIKE MECHANICAL PROBLEMS TO ME,THAT IS IF WHAT ISSAC SAID DOESN'T TURN OUT TO BE IT.WHEN I RELOCATED MY ALTERNATOR DOWN TO WERE MY A/C WAS ON MY OLDS,IT MADE DOING ANYTHING ON THE BACK OF THE ENGINE A BREEZE.SO ISSAC,ABOUT WHAT YOU SAID ABOU THE CAM SENSOR,DOES THE WAY IT SPRAYS THE FUEL INTO THE ENGINE MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE?AND IS THIS WHY THEY STARTED DOING THIS?

[IsaacHayes]

Turn off the caps please. Makes it hard to read.

SFI makes it run smoother and probably for emissions. Maybe slightly better mileage.

It could be mechanical on that car, but we need to start with the "simple" things first.

[96ols60degree]

Sorry about the caps.I was thinking about his problem and i had about the same problem with my olds once.It turned out to be the lines for the power steering had broken some wires that went to the crank sensor and mass air sensor on the wiring harness that runs next to it,but rubbing it apart everytime the engine would torque back and forth.One other thing,when my wires (at) my tps and mass air were broke caused a simular problem also.Just thought I would through it out there.

[freekie]

Do to bad weather over the past few days I havent been able to get back to the car. I thank you all though for the help. I will get back to you.