Valvetrain noise after cam swap

[tractorman]

But have you actually used a dial indicator and checked the preload on each lifter?

So you have custom-length pushrods... and they SHOULD be the right length. But the question is this: Have you actually checked? With a dial indicator? Each and every one? At TDC compression on each cylinder?

[tractorman]

Seriously, if you haven't

1. Checked the lifter preload.

2. With a dial indicator.

3. At TDC compression.

4. On each and every single valve.

Then you're pissing against the wind, here. If you have valve-train noise, then this needs to be checked. Swapping parts and hoping will get you nowhere fast... especially when dealing with non-stock parts.

[geldartb]

what kind of dialindicator am i looking for here

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/search_10153_12605?keyword=dial+indicator&gobutton.x=0&gobutton.y=0

this one looks like it would be good its got a magnetic base

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00996297000P

[tractorman]

You need the one with a magnetic base. No need to spend that kind of money, though- especially if you won't be using it every day. These two should fix you up if you don't mind paying tribute to the Middle Kingdom:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=623

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=5646

You'll get different opinions from different people about how much preload you should have. I'd say that .020 to .040 is a good rule of thumb. I don't know if you'll have a spec in the book.

The way your engine sounds, though, I'm going to guess that you have no preload at all. Matter of fact... I'm not sure that the dial indicator will be necessary if you know what you're looking for. Before you order that stuff, just put each cylinder at TDC compression adn see if the pushrods are loose. If they are, then you've found your problem.

[geldartb]

ok i will try that thanks for the help. it will prob be either this week or next when i get to it. dont know if it will happen this week i got a dentist appointment right smack in the middle of the afternoon.

anythings better than pissing away 200 bucks on lifters i dont need.

but seriously though the pushrods didnt seem loose but ill check all that ish when i get the dial indicator.

at least im not the only one having this issue granted this is on an LS! but same situtation none the less

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=669000

[3400-95-Modified]

Why are you telling him to check with a dial indicator... he used STOCK pushrods that were SHORTER than his custom ones and they still LOADED the lifters, you can see it and FEEL it right at the rocker. Hell 1/4 turn of an adjustable rocker nut is enough adjustment on a SBC to shut up lifters.

Brendands setup is the same as mine minus his cam is a little different than mine but we are running the same springs same seats, and I don't have noises like this... yes I have slight valve train noise but NOTHING like what he has.

Just go find some lifters somewhere and try those... its worth a shot... Granted you put new springs in the lifters but the oil holes could still be clogged... shit gets in there and with the small amount of metal filings I did see on your head it is a possibility they got fubared on first startup from crappy oil... You did tell me you reused what came out of it when you put the cam in...

[SappySE107]

I don't mean to be trite here... but I'm not about to read through 16 pages.

1. If you had read
2. the entire thread.
3. you would know.
4. how much preload he has.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-Chevy-Roller-Lifters-New-V6-3-4-3-1-3100-3400_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33614QQihZ006QQitemZ160247870626QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

[3400-95-Modified]

LMAO... Ben I love you!!

Nice price on the lifters too... thats real cheap.

Go for it Brendan... its only 75 bux and shipped from MI so they shouldn't take that long to get to you. should have them by Fri to work on it since thats your day off.

[geldartb]

nice post Ben way to tell the lazy guys who cant scan the thread. nobody said anything about reading each and every post.

wont be able to do that till i get paid thursday. and then i wouldnt be till next week when i get to it, got a dentist appt right smack in the middle of the afternoon.

niice find on the lifters Ben thanks. pretty good price too alot better than 200

[gpse3400]

THREE CHEERS FOR BEN!!!!!!!!!!!!.........hehehe

[turboD]

Just a wild in-the-dark shot at this. Since the noise only started after the cam was changed, what's the possibility that the cam has an undersized bearing journal ? If the journel was undersized, it would allow the oil to bypass through that cam bearing, dropping pressure to the lifters near that journal. It would be somewhat easy (?) to check with the intake off. Just install a primer and spin it over watching thru the lifter valley holes.
Second shot - any chance the rockers are hitting the intake manifold or valve covers on the underside at full lift ? I know that the end rockers run really close in some cases.
It sounds as if you've checked just about everything else - lift, coil bind, retainer interferance w/ the guide, etc. Sometimes 60* noises can be a bear to find. Had one once that had a typical lifter noise, only to find out it was a piston skirt. You would have sworn that it was a lifter. Found that one by cancelling the cylinders one at a time (takes the load off the piston).
Hope you find it soon, D

[3400-95-Modified]

his lift is less than mine and I didn't clearance anything so I know for a fact that its not rockers hitting the intake or valve covers... the cam being undersized, well maybe but when we did a oil pump test with the LIM off all the lifters had oil squirting out of the center holes, and it seemed like the lifters closer to the main source were having the issues... cylinder 5 or 3 to be more specific as far as ones that wouldn't pump up.

Also piston slap would be kind of a weird one since that wasn't there before hand and this no way sounds like typical piston slap

[tractorman]

I have a tendency towards hyperbole... and I'll admit that I lied in my first post. As disgusted as I was at the prospect, I read ALL SIXTEEN PAGES before making my second post. Within sixteen pages of sentence fragments, questionable advice, and occasional blatant ignorance... I saw nothing to convince me that Geldartb has adequately checked the lifter preload- or even has a basic understanding of how to do it.

Sorry, folks... but I think ya'll are assuming WAY too much, throughout the course of this thread. I know that communication skills are not necessarily indicative of mechanical skills, but based on what Geldartb has posted here, I'm impressed that the engine runs at all...

What we know so far is that he has installed a camshaft with a smaller-than-stock base circle (which is necessarily the case with a re-grind). His aftermarket pushrods *should* compensate... but considering that nasty valve-clatter, I'd damn well double-check (and as far as I can tell, this hasn't been done... certainly not to MY satisfaction).

But, hell... I assume you're in business to make money, Sappy. Most of us are. So go ahead and sell him some more aftermarket parts. Chances are pretty slim that it'll solve his problem- but this guy is persistant. He's already WAY over his head, and still buying parts without really understanding what's going on. Maybe you can sell him some heads next.

[SappySE107]

so I am supposed to sell him more parts? What for exactly? Why does he need heads to fix this problem? Maybe it is the heads. Maybe the rocker pedestal mounts aren't the right height. Yeah...

[tractorman]

all pre 99 stuff for the chain sprockets and guide.

bottom sprocket is on all the way.

we checked it with the pushrods mounted and the rockers tightened down and there wasnt any movement so the pushrods are the right length.
one of the valves on the front head was mostly open and it had no excessive movement.

pushrods are in the right place. the first time before i put the egnine back in the car i made sure it rotated freely and it did before i put it back in the car.

burning rubber hmm cant say i miss that smell everyday use to work in a rubber factory they make shoe soles

Emphasis mine.

THIS is why I have serious doubts that lifter preload has been thoroghly checked. The context of what I've bolded suggests to me that he didn't even bother to turn the engine over while "checking" preload... let alone find TCD compression on every cylinder.

I could be wrong- I wasn't there and I didn't work on it. But this is my best diagnosis from 1500 miles away.

Or he can continue to throw parts at it. Ain't my problem.