Please help the new guy! lol

[pontiacdohc@gmail.com]

so they are adjustable?

[JMo60]

hes saying he loosened the pedistal, removing the load from the spring, this is how he realized he had too long of valves... maybe im wrong, but this is how i understood it...

he is not saying he has the adjustable ball and cup style, its the pedistal mount rollers.

[sekse]

no they are not the adjustable type, I just loosened the nuts on the pedestals on non adjustable rocker studs. My theory is when the heads were resurfaced they may have shaved a bit much off the bottom and thus the push rods were pushing the valves open by 1/32 of an inch. Regardless it is running now, I finally got everything put back together, tomorrow I gotta fine tune the valves and finally I have a running car! lol

[tractorman]

Put the crack pipe down and step away from the vehicle.

I don't know what's going on with your valve height... still sounds to me like you have pushrods out of place. Even if that isn't the case, then something is clearly wrong, and you're about to do major damage to your engine. These rockers have to be torqued down properly... backing them off any amount for more valve clearance is simply not an option.

You need to figure out why those valves are not closing. Either you have pushrods out of place, or the valve heights are set up wrong. In either case, you'll be lucky if the engine runs properly for more than an hour.

[davida1_hiwaay_net]

What we are concerned about is if the rocker pedestals are designed to be "torqued" and they are "adjusted" instead; there will be movement and continued loosening of the parts.

Assuming all the parts are correct for your engine and installed in the correct places, you may need to shim something to get this issue fixed.

With the shims in place, you can tighten the pedestals down to the proper torque spec and the shim will make up for the shaved-off heads and allow the valvetrain to work properly. Because everything is tightened down on the shims there will not be any unintentional movement and loosening.

Adjustable rockers have a special locking nut and very close clearance between the stud and the inner diameter of the rocker pivot. They will not move around or loosen even though the nut is not "torqued against" anything solid.

I sure wish I could see your rockers and studs to make sure we are all on the same page here! I don't know these engines well enough to say what years had which type hardware.
Take care,
David

[tractorman]

Being a 1996 3100, I reckon he has the small-port heads and roller rockers. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that shims are an option for this engine.

I really think he has his pushrods out of order. This kid is clearly in WAY over his head... he'd do well to take it to a mechanic before he ruins the engine.

[TazMan]

Put the crack pipe down and step away from the vehicle.

Hee hee, I almost peed myself

Being a 1996 3100, I reckon he has the small-port heads and roller rockers. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that shims are an option for this engine.

I'm looking at a Gen 3 head with stamped steel rockers and a large port head. From the look of both heads it doesn't look like it would be a problem on either of them, but I would figure out why it's happening first. If you're 100% sure you have the pushrods in the right place then I would return those heads. I know it's a big pain to pull them but it would really suck if you ruined your engine trying to compensate for a mistake made by a "reputable shop". Besides, if there's already such a big problem with those heads, who knows what else could be wrong with them. Just my 2 cents. Either way good luck with it.

[tractorman]

The rocker pedestels for the roller rockers have a tab that aligns with a slot in the cylinder head... lines up the pedestel. Seems like that'd interfere with putting in shims.

But yeah, now is not the time to be worrying about shims. Right now, this guy needs to figure out exactly why things don't fit.

What strikes me is that he says all the intake valves are being held open. It's hard to imagine getting ALL the pushrods wrong (though we're talking about a feller who guesses at head bolt torque and wants to run rocker arms with loose bolts), but that's the only thing I can come up with that would explain what he's posted.

Besides crack.

[sekse]

Ok guys, honestly, I am not here to get flamed or concidered a noob, I have been working on cars for over a decade just never ran into this problem. For the last time, ALL THE PUSH RODS ARE IN CORRECTLY! If they weren't I would have already done more damage. I believe the heads were excessively shaved. It has non roller rockers and large ports. The pedestals are not in any slots. They assemble as follows, a stud (pedestal) screws into the head, no tabs or anything to lock it in place. The rocker sits on the stud, followed by a hemispherical washer, then a nut to retain the rocker and pivoting washer. The only threat would be the nut working loose and the rocker and washer coming loose, which would not likely happen concidering it is snug still and there would be a noticeable drop in performance from the valves not opening enough before they fly off. I am not looking to get flamed or treated like some high school shade tree mechanic, I was looking for professional advise from somebody who had already been through this. Again, I think the problem is the heads were heavily shaved, but adding 1/32 of an inch clearance fixes it, so I plan to install thin washers beneath the pedestals to correct the problem without leaving the rocker nuts loose. If anyone has something creative to comment, please do, but if you are going to just sit there and act like I know nothing about a motor then please don't waste either of our time.

[pontiacdohc@gmail.com]

i just put a 2000 3.1 long block together and and i did notice that my cyl heads did have shims so he does need to figure out how much of a gap he has its a really good possibility that the shop may have forgot to give him shims seeing that he probley got the heads with valves installed with out the rocker arms.

edit it seems like them heads have a total different mounting design then every here was thinking?

i think you have these heads
<img src="http://www.ramscylinderheads.com/gm31.gif">

I think these are the heads were talking about notice this head uses a bolt to hold the rocker nut a stud and nuts
<img src="http://www.ramscylinderheads.com/gm34.gif">

[TazMan]

The rocker pedestels for the roller rockers have a tab that aligns with a slot in the cylinder head... lines up the pedestel. Seems like that'd interfere with putting in shims.

But yeah, now is not the time to be worrying about shims. Right now, this guy needs to figure out exactly why things don't fit.

What strikes me is that he says all the intake valves are being held open. It's hard to imagine getting ALL the pushrods wrong (though we're talking about a feller who guesses at head bolt torque and wants to run rocker arms with loose bolts), but that's the only thing I can come up with that would explain what he's posted.

Besides crack.

LOL, I'll admit, when he mentioned running it with the rockers loose, I couldn't help but cringe. Just the idea of it to me is dreadful, but hey, everybody's gotta start somewhere. Before I came to this site I had never even seen a pushrod.

If the pushrods are mixed up I would think he would've heard the valves hitting the pistons. I figured maybe the shop put in the wrong valves or shaved to much material off the head, if it's even possible to shave it that much. Before using shims I'd just get shorter pushrods, but If the head is shaved that much I would think it would also cause an alignment problem with the LIM, valve covers, etc. Now thats all just speculation on my part so again, someone more experienced would have to chime in on that. Either way, I would return those heads.

[SappySE107]

Where are your pushrod guides?

[pontiacdohc@gmail.com]

i just put a 2000 3.1 long block together and and i did notice that my cyl heads did have shims so he does need to figure out how much of a gap he has its a really good possibility that the shop may have forgot to give him shims seeing that he probley got the heads with valves installed with out the rocker arms.

i think you have these heads where there is a stud and nut that holds the rocker


i think we are talking about this head where there is a simple bolt that holds the rocker down

[TazMan]

i just put a 2000 3.1 long block together and and i did notice that my cyl heads did have shims so he does need to figure out how much of a gap he has its a really good possibility that the shop may have forgot to give him shims seeing that he probley got the heads with valves installed with out the rocker arms.

i think you have these heads where there is a stud and nut that holds the rocker


i think we are talking about this head where there is a simple bolt that holds the rocker down

I actually have both those heads here.

When I started writing my post, yours wasn't up yet. If it had been, I wouldn't have even bothered sending it since what your saying makes alot more sense then what I was thinking.

[gpse3400]

Maybe it has something to do with the bolts being toqued down to 95 lbs. Might've sqished the gasket that much to offset the geometry. Try retightning everything it should run ok still.