Help a Noob out! (long)

[BHorn]

Hi all, I'm a newbie here with a problem with a 97 olds cutlass supreme, 3100, with 136k on the clock.

Driving it yesterday, and it just died. Tried a restart, and it sounded like it jumped a tooth on the Timing Chain. I put a new Cloyes chain and gears in it today, Made sure the marks were in the same places on the new, and old gears, turned it over by hand 8 complete revolutions, and the marks were perfect. Had compression, and nothing was binding. The old chain and gears were worn, but I've seen much worse, and they were perfectly in time. Put it all back together, and it acts the exact same. Put a new camshaft position sensor in it, and it started, very hard start, but ran like crap. Thought it had to be a timing problem, and put in a new crankshaft position sensor. Didn't help at all. It still runs like it's out of time.

It has a metallic "ping" in it, but it's not rhythmic like a valve, or something in the valvetrain, but that's the area the sound is coming from. It almost sounds like a REALLY bad spark knock. I am also getting a P300 "multiple cylinder Misfire" code.

Almost one year ago, I had to do the headgaskets up. When I put it back together, I got the pushrods switched on one cylinder. One bent valve, and a broken pushrod later, I figured it out. Don't try to help your teenager while working on Mom's car! The piston wasn't hurt, about all it did was knock the carbon off the top. Got NEW GM parts, and put it together. None of the other valves were touched by me, or the pistons. Haven't had a problem since. I've rebuilt several sets of heads, and I'm sure the valvespring retainers were holding, and in place.

I'm completely stumped! I'm going to do a compression check tomorrow, But is there anything I'm missing? I thought of the coilpack, and module, but what could the "ping" be?

What are the odds of a broken cam(seen it before), or a dropped valve?

Thanks in advance, and sorry for such a long post.

[bszopi]

One thing I'd check (because it happened to me).... well crap, nevermind. I was gonna say a possible broken pushrod retainer, but with it being a 97, you should have roller rockers and no retainer. Still might be a good idea to check and make sure all the pushrods are still setting inline with the rockers and lifters. Even just a visual inspection of the valvetrain would be a good start.

[BHorn]

Thanks for the reply, I did visually check the front, and they were fine, and nothing broken. After all of that, I wasn't up tearing into the back cylinder. Tomorrow's another day!

[BHorn]

Was just doing some research here, and saw that on some engines the cam is hollow with press on lobes!?!?!? Which engines were those? If it is the cam in mine, is it time for a little more lift, and duration?

[geoffinbc]

You got the right plus wires on the right terminals? Has the intake ever leaked? Check the condition of the oil.

[bszopi]

All 3x00s (so basically all engines from 94-up, with a few exceptions in 94) are hollow core with pressed on lobes. As far as a new cam, with more lift and duration, you'll have to wait alittle while. As of right now, the only thing available for these engines are regrinds. Comp Cams is currently in the R&D process for an aftermarket cam, but I don't expect them to be out until mid to late summer.

[BHorn]

better than you, I haven't taken any of the plug wires off, and I'm SURE they are right. I've made that mistake before, and it's amazing how well they run with 2 plug wires crossed!

bszopi, that's what I was afraid of. I don't think the other half wants to drive the Jeep until then, and I know I don't want to drive the ElCamino with gas prices around $1.75/gal. Two 600 cfm Carters on a 454 would get expensive!

This damned car is gonna keep me up all night until I figure it out!

[bszopi]

Sorry to hear that...

I do have a regrind with ~20k on it that I just pulled out of my engine (the cam itself has ~117k on it). I'd probably be willing to sell it for a decent price if you are really interested, although I'm not sure you'd like how your car ran following the install...

[BHorn]

Being the wife's car, I couldn't go very radical at all.

[SappySE107]

It sounds like the spark plug wires are bad. Im not sure anything with the fuel injectors would cause that code or not but it could be a few clogged injectors not spraying properly? Probably has its own code for the injectors...who knows. Maybe checking the rear will show something but my guess now is with the plug wires.

[BHorn]

AND NOW FOR AN UPDATE.................................

Ran a compression check today, and cylinders1, 2, 3, and 4 had 190 - 195 well within 10%. Cylinders 5 and 6 had 0! Pulled the front valve cover off and spun the engine. The last 3 rocker arms on the left didn't move! Put an extension on the pushrod end of the rockers and pushed as hard as I could, and none of them moved.

Here is the scenario I picture: Cruising at 45 mph TCC is locked up as it should be, and all of a sudden the oil pump locks up. The oil pump is at the rear of the engine, driven by the camshaft, the crankshaft is STILL being driven by the transmission. The cam is being driven through the timing chain connected to the crank. The roll pin on the oil pump drive gear that's supposed to shear when this happens, didn't, and twisted the cam in half between the lobes on cylinder 4.

This SUCKS!!!!

I have a bad feeling that I'm gonna end up with some REALLY badass mechanical carnage pics to show you guys. I think I have a line on a low mileage 3100 to replace it, so maybe not all is lost.

Right now, I would like to find the engineer who thought that a hollow camshaft with pressed on lobes was a good idea, and break his neck!


Thanks for all of the input guys, but I guess none of saw this one coming!

[Mitch DOHC]

that sucks..... looks like u need that new cam after all....... hope u dident run it too long while u were trying to figur out what was wrong with it..... even though it was running really bad it was still runing... with no oil pressure

[BHorn]

Yeah, I'm not giving ot much hope. It never got hot though. Kinda funny.

[geoffinbc]

Hollow cams are made of steel which is stronger than traditional cast iron. There is nothing wrong with hollow shafting. You loose so much weight for only a marginal decrease in strength. Your cam woulda snapped ragardless.

[BHorn]

Still a crappy design though. I would have much rather seen the roll pin shear. Oh well, what's done is done.