95 GA 3100 - Which LIM Set?

[The Burning Rom]

I'm working on a 95 Grand Am SE for a friend of my dad. It needs an intake manifold gasket replacement bad, and possibly a head gasket replacement since he's been driving it for a long time with the leaky LIM gasket. The way he was describing it, he's let it get hot quite a few times

My question is, which LIM set do I use for it? Everyone here seems to like the ms98004t gasket set from Fel-Pro, but the guy at the parts store said it was for roller rocker motors only. I generally disregard what parts store guys say, but I'm not real familiar with the 3100 (only the 3.1), so I'm not sure if what he's saying is right or not. I know the '94 and '95 3100s were odd ball motors with stamped rockers, so I'm wondering if it's true that the nice gasket set won't work for the motor?

The car was built at the end of the '95 model year as well (June), so I'm not sure if it still has the stamped steel rockers or the roller tip ones in. I know sometimes they make engine changes early. I haven't had time to pull the valve cover off yet and check, and I won't have time until later. I guess I'm just wondering if the Fel-Pro set I mentioned above will work with both motors or just the roller motor? I'd like to find out so I can get one ordered. Thanks!

[SappySE107]

Your name looks familiar...

The parts counter guy is right, its for roller motors only...roller cam 3100s like yours:P If ms98004t is for your year, then those are the gaskets you want.

[The Burning Rom]

My name probably is familiar. I'm a member of most of the w-body and GP boards. I haven't been around a lot lately though...I have a new toy...with 10 cylinders

He specifically asked me if it had roller rockers...which it doesn't. I've got the valve cover off now, so I know that for sure. (I see butterscotch all over as well...may have to pull the heads ) Rockauto lists a gasket kit for the non-roller rockers and a gasket kit for roller rockers. Then it lists the kit I'm asking about, which is listed for both motors. All of these kits are listed under a 95 GA SE. As far as I can tell, the only difference between the two sets is the shape of the excess gasket material and the fact that the "roller rocker" set has guides built into the gasket.

[IsaacHayes]

Yes the MS98004T is the metal felpro LIM gasket for the 94-95 year 3100's.
Plastic oem style is MS95536.

The ms98003t is for the large port motors with roller fulcrum rockers.

Shop around for the metal ones, some places are way higher than others. I got my set on ebay for like 50 or something IIRC. The local parts stores vary in prices too.

EDIT: Are the bearings ok? Hope there isnt much coolant in the oilpan...

On oriellyauto.com it shows the small port 96 roller year with the 4T gasket, and says this:

w/ROLLER ROCKER ARMS
2ND DESIGN w/PUSH ROD GUIDES ON INT GSKT OR
w/BALL & PIVOT ROCKER ARMS
1ST DESIGN w/o PUSH ROD GUIDES ON INT GSKT
COMPLETE SET
VALVE COVER GSKT
& UPPER SET INCL
PERMA DRY PLUS

So I guess it works for either one.

[tractorman]

Glad to hear that you generally disregard advice from parts guys... that's a good first step to getting the right parts. There's a fair amount of confusion about which gaskets you'll need... and to be fair to the parts guy... when you're getting PLASTIC LIM gaskets, it matters whether or not you've got roller rockers. However, when you want the new kicka$$ metal fel-pro gaskets... they use the same MS98004t set for ALL of the pre-99 (or is it 00?)3100 engines- regardless of rocker arm design.

While you're at it, you'll want to get a new heater hose pipe connector, an oil pump drive o-ring, and injector o-rings.

Unless you seen signs of compression getting into the cooling system (like instant pressurization when you start the engine), you can likely get away with just changing the intake gaskets.

Whatever you do... if you take nothing else away from this post:

KEEP THEM PUSHRODS IN ORDER. INTAKE AND EXHAUST PUSHRODS ARE DIFFERENT LENGHTS- IF YOU INADVERTANTLY SWAP THEM, YOU'LL MAKE VALVES HIT PISTONS. DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES CRANK THE ENGINE UNLESS YOU'RE ABSOULTELY SURE THAT THE PUSHRODS ARE IN THE PROPER ORDER AND THE PROPER PLACE.

Sorry'bout the yelling... but it's for your engine's own good. It's really sad how many engines we've seen ruined around here because of this little pushrod issue.

[IsaacHayes]

You can get buy without the injector O-rings if you disconnect the fuel lines by the firewall and leave the fuel rail on the lower intake. I always do that I never un-bolt it, no reason to really.

If you go to the dealer to get the oil pump drive oring you can get the new brown high temp one that lasts better. They also gave me a gasket to put under it too.

[tractorman]

Good point about the improved oil pump drive o-ring. From what I've been told, that gasket was likely a smallblock chevy distributor gasket? That's what I've been told... haven't confirmed it.

I really feel like a dumbass about the fuel rail thing. I've done this LIM job on three different engines- and fought that PITA fuel rail every time. Just looked over the 3100 engine in the Lumina... and I reckon you're right. I can't see any reason why you can't just leave the injectors in place (which I'd definitely reccomend, if possible). I guess the next LIM job will be a bit easier.

A '95 Grand AM... isn't that quite similar to a Lumina? Take a look at your radiator drain. If it has that PITA special-OEM-tool setup, Napa sells a user-friendly replacement. Might be a good time to upgrade.

[IsaacHayes]

Should be closer to an L body at least how it mounts and the placement of battery and air box, and coolant tank. Mine had a knob that you can turn by hand and so did my friends 97 lumina.. I put a tube on the radiator drain and it just barely sticks out the bottom of my body frame. So no coolant gets anywhere but straight into a drain pan. Nice if you need to re-use it if you just put in fresh.

For the fuel lines by the firewall you'll need those quick disconnect tools to pop the lines off.