Woot! Another LIM Gasket thread!

[nequamminor]

Today I just drove out to my friend's shop to do all this work on my car that I've been planning. I started to drain the oil and proceeded to take off the oil cap and saw .... mayonnaise, butterscotch pudding, whatever you want to call it. Its about 1/4 inch thick on the inside walls around the oil cap as well. I changed the oil and left it at that seeing as how the LIM gasket is that bad. The coolant looks just like the butterscotch inside the engine only it is watered down. This is just a bad LIM gasket leak right? The head gaskets are pretty safe on the 3.1's I've heard. Anyways, assuming I correctly replace the LIM gasket and all the other gaskets from LIM on up, can i dump seafoam or the equivalent in the engine and clean that out or how would I go about getting all the pudding/mayonnaise out of there? By the way the engine runs perfectly, and I've probably put close to 500 on it since I bought it, and its been run for a while before then too I'm willing to bet. It just keeps going and I don't know why. Does anyone have any ideas about the flushing part of it? And/or how much the engine will take as far as the flushing goes?

[IsaacHayes]

96 3100 grand prix?

Yeah hopefully the bearings are ok. Get a new LIM on there fast. Also get the distributor oil pump shaft o-ring and seal (a dealership should know what you're talking about and has the best ones for it). You can put on a metal LIM gasket from fel-pro so it doesn't fail again or get the cheap stock replacement.

The gunk inside the coolant you are seeing is the DexCool coolant that likes to turn to mud and clog up your whole cooling system ruining your heatercore, radiator, thermostat and more when it gets old or gets air in it. Flush that crap outta there and use the old green stuff or new yellow stuff.

[nequamminor]

What about the motor flushing end of it? Would the engine be ok if I were to just dump some seafoam in it or whatever? Could it be head gaskets too? Is it worth it to repair it for the 85$ of LIM gaskets?

[RedBird]

well it depends on how long it's been sludge and not oil. once that stuff gets in/on the bearings really good, i guess they're junk. so you can try to flush it but if it starts knocking you know why I hope it doesn't, i hate seeing people go through more trouble than is neccesary.

[nequamminor]

The people who owned it before me always told me that when it overheated, if you turned it off and restarted it it was fine for a while. That probably means its been overheated too.... What about the possibility of cracked/warped heads? I've also read that if your oil isnt milky and you have the mayonnaise on the sides of the walls that you probably have a bad head gasket too. Did I read that right? (It was badly worded) I don't know if this engine is worth the 85 dollar lim gasket at this point.

[IsaacHayes]

Eeek, it overheated? Depending on the previous owners definition of overheat and their smarts about cars, it could be really messed up, or it could of just got to the "HOT" area on the temp gauge and they shut the car off to let it cool off before it got dangerous... _shrug_

It was probably overheating because of the dex-cool clogged up the radiator/heater-core/thermostat.

The oil can be milky/mayonase from a faulty LIM since coolant goes through the ports of the gasket and when it fails it dumps coolant into the oil. Simple as that.

I don't know if you have the tools to put a new motor in or not, but if you want to be sure this vehicle will run good, a new motor swap would be nice, check out www.3400swap.com and read on here to put a 3400 in there, you'll pick up some extra power that way too. Also, it would be a good idea to get the heater core and radiator flushed out very well as it's likely clogged. Same for the whole cooling system and put a new thermostat in.

Or you could take your chances, get the cheap plastic $40 gasket kit, do the LIM gasket. Then flush the cooling system SEVERAL times and replace the thermostat. Change the oil again after you've let it circulate (I have no experience with seafoam/etc so I can't offer advice there). Check to make sure the cooling system is working with no clogs (doesn't overheat, doesn't rise temp unless you've been sitting still for a long time, and make sure heat blows out of the heater). Then keep driving it and if the bottom doesn't let go then you're probably good!

It could be ok, or it could be really messed up. You could do the $40 plastic gasket so if the motor blows it's not a whole lot of money on gaskets. I'd leave the headgasket alone unless you know for sure it's blown in that case it's probably cheaper to get a whole new motor since you dont know about the bearings either and headgaskets arent cheap.

How was the motor running before you parked it? Any noises? You might of caught it just in time, but who knows. It's up to you to decide if you can replace the whole motor or if the car is worth it (is the body/interior nice?). Or do the LIM and clean out the cooling system and cross your fingers the bearings hold up and go from there...

[IsaacHayes]

Milk-shake oil: lots of coolant is in the oil and VERY bad for the bearings.

Mayo on the oil cap: some coolant/moisture is in the oil and steams up and collects on the cap. The start of a problem.

Head gaskets are durable on these motors, and unless it got extremely hot and warped the heads, I highly doubt the head gasket is bad. Once you take out the LIM gasket you'll see it's the problem.

[nequamminor]

First good news I've heard since I saw the oil cap. When I drained the oil is nice and dark, I had no clue until I pulled the oil cap off. It was on the oil cap good and thick, and I took a flashlight to look in around the oil cap and saw it coating the walls of the engine. Oil was fine though. That's probably why it still runs like it does. How would I remedy this problem after I put on a new LIM gasket? Would I need to get engine flush or how would I take care of the mayo in the engine?

[tractorman]

Here's what I'd do: I'd take off the LIM and look closely at the gaskets, especially where the water runs through. If I saw OBVIOUS signs of leakage (split plastic, ate-up seal beads, etc.), then I'd slap it back together with those kickass FelPro metal/rubber gaskets. Clean out the top of the engine as well as you can while it's apart, and leave the drain plug off so the sludge can drip out for a couple days or more. Then I'd change the oil. I'd drive it for a week, and change the oil again. I personally wouldn't bother with seafoam or anything like that- not neccesary.

Now, if there are no obvious signs of leakage on the LIM gaskets... then I'd be concerned...

[nequamminor]

My only other worry is about the exhaust. Its always white, and normally exhaust is, in the cold anyways. It seems it may be a little more white then normal exhaust, at least compared to my mom's '04 Stratus. (Yes, I know that's a bad comparison). I've read that white exhaust can mean head gasket one way or another due to coolant burning off. If coolant is getting into the engine via LIM though, why can't it burn off only via LIM just the same? That's very possible isn't it? I have a friend who will do the LIM gasket for me seeing as he's done it tons of time and I'll just basically hand him wrenches. This will be by far the biggest job I've ever done (or seen done) on a car before so I'm glad I don't have to do it.

[tractorman]

When people see signs of coolant in the oil or coolant in the combustion... they automatically think HEAD GASKET! That's not neccesarily the case, though. If the intake gasket is leaking bad enough and coolant is being sucked into an intake port... then, yes, it'll smoke white just like a blown head gasket. That's why you need to pull the LIM and inspect the gaskets- the leak should be very obvious considering the symptoms you're describing. IF there's no obvious leak on the LIM gaskets, THEN you should consider pulling the heads and checking for cracks.

Glad to hear you have some help on this job- it's not bad if you do lots of wrenching... but if you're just starting out, this isn't the place to start. There are lots of threads around here that give a detailed account of the job if you'll search a bit. Here's my one bit of advice that you need to beware: KEEP THEM PUSHRODS IN ORDER. Get'em outta place, and it'll ruin that engine real quick.

[IsaacHayes]

OH OK. So you JUST NOW drained the oil, and its normal looking. You're in good shape then. You caught it just in time. I thought you had already drained the oil and it was butterscotch coming out.

Phew!

Yeah get them metal Felpro gaskets on there, clean everything up like tractorman says and you should be golden! Just follow what he said, good advice!

YES pushrods don't mix em up. Take some card board, label how they go, and poke them through the cardboard and set it aside with top/bottom marked so that when you go to put them back in, you put them exactly the way they were.

I'm pretty sure the LIM will be bad and the cause. Hopefully the previous owner didn't over heat the car and just shut it off when it got towards the red. And yeah clean out and flush the whole cooling system several times and put in a new thermostat (this is easiest done when the LIM is off, since it will be in your hands and not in the crowded engine compartment).

[nequamminor]

It wont happen for quite some time because I am $84 dollars short of the $85 dollar LIM gasket from autozone. Thank you guys for the reassurance though. I was going to sell it to get a car exactly like it, only an '96 Olds Cutlass Supreme with a 3100 - the exact same car with a different body on it, for a $2400 difference. Thank you guys a lot for the help and advice. If anything else comes up I'll let you know. Would the car be alright driving to a garage or something 10 miles away if I'm easy with it?

[pontiac3100]

that stuff you seen in the cap is normal.
when i was working for a place nearby my house i seen that stuff on my cap.
but when i was at my other job ( which is 16 mi a day) that stuff does'nt come up.

as long as it does'nt show when you check the dip stick, or drain the oil, show all is good.

the h/g's on these cars goes out because poeple let the coolant level get low and then screws up the engine which in turn warps the h/g's.

the only common problems with these engine are lim gaskets.
other than that these engines are pretty tough!

[tractorman]

nequamminor- if you value your engine at all, you'll completely disregard EVERYTHING in pontiac3100's post. Butterscotch under the cap is BAD.

And if it's using coolant bad enough that it's smoking white... then be damned careful about driving it anywhere. At the very least, loosen the radiator cap so there's no pressure in the cooling system while you LIMP it to the shop.