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**tractorman** · 01-20-2007, 07:27 PM

Ok... I'll try to answer your questions one at a time. Your question about engine oil has me worried, though... have you done major work on an engine before? This is a pretty 'involved' job- MANY first-timers have ruined their engines by doing this job. Lots of folks here can walk you through it... but be advised that this is a big job.

anyways... if it's a GM v6 with a displacement of 3.1 liters, then it's called a 3.1 up through '93. From '94 and up, they call it a 3100- I guess because there were significant changes to the engine in '94. Lots more changes since then, too... but they're called 3100's if it's '94 and up.

See my rant on the "f'ing dexcool" board in this section. There are no EASY fixed for your dexcool sludge problem- fixing your problem WILL be "involved". At a bare minimum, you need to thoroghly flush the cooling system and put in new antifreeze. I reccomend green stuff simply because it's not dexcool and therefore does not turn into dexcool-sludge. Some folks will tell you to refill with dexcool, but they're on crack.

I don't know why you're checking the oil with the engine running. That doesn't mean anything- it just shows high because the oil is splashing around. Just check it with the engine shut off. Your oil system is NOT clogged up- don't worry about it. Worry about coolant in your oil. Take the oil cap off and look underneath it- if it looks slimey (as opposed to oily), then there MIGHT be coolant in the oil. Also, run your finger in there and scrape around on the underside of the valve cover. If you come up with something that looks like mayonaise, then there's coolant in the oil. This is bad $hit and means that the job needs to be done right now- before you drive the car anywhere.

Here's where you find out just how much of a hillbilly I really am. If you come up with some scum from the oil cap or valve cover, and you're not SURE whether or not it's coolant in the oil... taste it. I ain't $hittin' you. If it's coolant, it'll taste bitter. Just a small sacrifice for your engine.

The felpro "problem solver" kit comes with most of the gaskets you need, including the valve cover gaskets. I dont' know what the hell that Autozone site is talking about. Both valve covers MUST come off. You'll also need both EGR gaskets, an oil pump drive o-ring, and that connector assembly for your heater hose pipe down below where the thermotats neck bolts on. I'm pretty sure that the part number for the kit is MS98004T. You're on yer own for the rest of those parts.

Here's my good deed for the day. I tell this to anybody I come across who's going to do this job- and I'm proud to say that I've saved at least one 3100 engine from doom by repeating this advice:

KEEP THEM PUSHRODS IN ORDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Whateverthehell you do, put the pushrods back in exactly how you found them. The intake pushrods and the exhaust pushrods are different lengths, and if you crank the engine with pushrods in the wrong place, then a piston will hit a valve and cost you many many hours and many many hundreds of dollars. Do not crank that engine unless you're absolutely sure that all the pushrods are in the right place. I use a box with holes cut in it (numbered) to keep them in order- do it however you want, just don't screw it up. Also, before you even THINK about starting the engine, take a ratched and turn the engine over by hand (carefully!) AT LEAST two full revolutions of the crank. If you have pushrods in the wrong place, it'll clunk to a stop, but then at least you'll know you have a problem before you've ruined a head (and/or piston?).

Good luck and Gawdspeed.

**tractorman** · 01-20-2007, 09:35 PM

Also, I don't think you want to tear it down tomorrow if you're going to need the car monday morning. You should allow a whole weekend for this job. I've done several of these LIM jobs myself, and it takes me a good six hours or so to do it RIGHT... If you've never done this job before, then it'll take longer. If you run into problems (and MANY people do), then that'll take even more time.

**tractorman** · 01-20-2007, 09:37 PM

Oh yeah- and go ahead and buy a new drain valve for your radiator. The original is a pain the the ass, and you'll likely break it if you're able to get it out at all. A new one will have a tab on it that you can turn by hand, rather than that special tool bull$hit that GM came up with. Put some silicon GREASE on the new one so it won't get stuck.

**camusmuse** · 01-20-2007, 09:58 PM

Thank ya thank ya, mr tractorman. Sorry for all the questions, but I have a limited amount of 'shop time' and had to get started right away.

Yeah, I've done lots of "involved" work, complete restoration of a '79 MGB inculded. This is just the first time for any ''60degreev6" madness.

I got everything torn down today and the surfaces POLISHED....lol, well not literally, but my arm hurts. Ran in to the typical problems, broke the plastic clip on the heater hose, general ignorance...lol. But everything(almost) looks good and tomorrow it should be back together. The only thing that has me concerned is the head coolant port on the passenger side rear has, either a casting inperfection, or has been corroded so that the new rubber gasket doesnt seat fully. It wasnt leaking there before, but it was filled with what looked like sand/oil/dexcrap all packed tight. Its also port that is blocked off buy the LIM and ends there. I've thought about a JB weld fix, but that might be worse than it is already, the area missing is about 1/8" x1/8".

I read your f'ing dexcool post MANY times, even saved parts of it for my "how-to" that I made from research here. I'm just gonna get everything back together and have it flushed(and no.....no crackhead dexcrap...lol).

I checked the oil with the engine running just out of habit, ive never had a car that you couldnt do that on(that I can remember).

There is NO coolant in the oil that I have seen yet, at all. When I pulled the gasket, it was mostly intact, no passages at all to the inside of the motor, just the outside driver sides front and back, and those were barely noticeable.

Tast the sludge huh? Yeah, I'm that much of a hillbilly too....and proud of it!!! But shouldnt coolant be sweet? Either way, there was no sludge in the oil, so I'm all happy there, and so are my taste buds.

Yeah, Autozone is goofy, the kit has both valve cover gaskets in it....no big suprise there.

Yep, used a piece of cardboard and poked them though in order and marked the front. They all went back in EXACTLY how they came out, even kept the tops and bottoms the same.

I'll still crank it over by hand, good tip!

Thanks again for all the help and info......

**camusmuse** · 01-20-2007, 10:03 PM

I had planned on the whole weekend really, just was hoping for it to be done in a day.

The petcock had been replaced before, so I didnt have to mess with that noise.

Thanks again man....the info is great.

I took several pics and could probably write up a how-to....

I just wanna give some back, because this site has helped me a ton!

**tractorman** · 01-21-2007, 02:30 AM

Glad to hear that it's gone well so far. Sounds like you have a good handle on things- your checking the oil while running comment threw me for a loop though... never heard of anybody doing it that way. I'll admit that I've never tried it, though.

I installed one of those new metal felpro gasket sets on my wife's '01 Lumina a while back. It was a different part number than yours (MS98003T) because they changed the heads and intake on these engines about '99 or so. Regardless, the instructions in that kit (and possibly in your kit) said that pitting or corrosion on the sealing surface on the head can be fixed using epoxy- and I reckon that JB weld is as good as any other epoxy. For some reason, they specifically say not to use silicon... I'm not sure they they MEAN it, though.

The only time I dealt with pitting on the intake gasket surfaces on the cylinder heads was when I did this LIM job on a '96 Olds Achieva with 190k+ miles. I was using the old style plastic gaskets- these kickass new metal ones hadn't come out yet. I just smeared silicon over the pitted area, put it together, and forgot about it. It never had a problem. I'm not sure what I'd do in your case (it'd be purely a guess, no matter what I tell you)... but I'd probably disregard their warning and smear silicon on it.

Don't feel bad about the heater hose thing. Those plastic clips for the heater hose pipe will break every time you try to remove them. You might as well just buy a whole new connector any time you plan on messing with it.

It's also a good idea to replace the oil pump drive o-ring while you have the thing apart- it's a very common leak on these engines. You can get an o-ring at autozone, but GM has come out with a new improved one made out of something special (it's brown) that's supposed to last longer.

GM has also come out with new (and expensive) bolts for this application. They're exactly the same as your old bolts, but with fancy printed-on locktite. You'd do well to clean up your LIM bolts and put locktite on them. They have a habit of coming loose.

**camusmuse** · 01-21-2007, 03:20 AM

Yeah the instructions with the kit I have the same info as yours did. Honestly, I was also considering the silicone to "fill" the hole anyway(especially since thats what is used to do the bottom of the LIM). There are two ribs on the gasket around the port, and only one is on metal the other is over the "void". SO there is SOME contact(seal), but not enough to make me not worry. I probably will do the jb weld. I DONT want to do this again....lol.

The kit came with a bunch of other gaskets and an o-ring too, I havent looked too closely yet though.

I was lucky and was able to get ahold of just the clip for the heater hose connector. It's brand new and the rest of the connector looks good, I think I should be alright.

Have the bolts soaking as I type, they'll be all pretty tomorrow, dressed in red lock tite....lol, I hope. Of course there is a snow storm tonight/this morning, so I might not get back to the car for a day or two, especially if we lose power AGAIN.....been a bad couple years for st louis.

Thanks again tractorman.......maybe now I can get some sleep....lol

Nate

**onefastV6** · 01-21-2007, 03:26 AM

I am not sure why people get the pushrod order confused, but it is a common occurance as it seems like I hear about it atleast once every 6 months.

Just remember the longer pushrods tuck behind the loop in the LIM gasket and the shorter pushrods rest on the outside of the gasket.

As for the RTV silicone in the "valley" or ends of the manifold, I personally like to use thin strip of silicone rubber cut to the shape of the sealing surface. Then lightly coat the silicone strips with RTV sealant and install. I feel it makes for a much better seal, and the same type of "valley" gasket can be seen on the new 3500 engines.

Depending on how many miles are on the engine you might want to replace the water pump while it is apart and the belt.

**tractorman** · 01-21-2007, 12:08 PM

FYI- if I remember right, the new metal gaskets don't have that same 'loop' pushrod guide setup as the old plastic ones. The pushrod guides are just little metal tabs that you prop the pushrods up against. They don't really do anything except keep the pushrods in position while you're putting the engine back together.

The o-ring that was in your kit is probably that little black one a bit bigger than a quarter. That one is for the heater hose pipe where it goes in above the water pump. The kit doesn't come with the oil pump drive o-ring, which is essentially a distributor o-ring. When I bought one at Advance years ago for the old Corsica, they couldn't figure out how to look it up, so I had them get me the distributor o-ring for a 1980 Citation with a 2.8 (my Ma had one when I was a kid). It was the same o-ring. The chevy dealer had no problem looking it up for the '96 Achieva or the '01 Lumina, though. And like I said, the one from the dealer is better.

That snow storm has already been through here. We got about 10 inches here in Wichita- on top of the inch or two of ice left over from last week. Fun times.

**camusmuse** · 01-21-2007, 08:22 PM

Quick update....IT RUNS!!!!

The only hiccup was on the drive home when the temp shot up, almost to redline, then went back down to normal. I think that maybe the sludge gave way with all the new coolant and high temp. I'll still have it flushed though.....

THANKS AGAIN, I'll do a more in depth post later........

**bszopi** · 01-21-2007, 08:32 PM

The system probably justs needs to be bled really good. These engines have a tendency to keep air in them.

**tractorman** · 01-21-2007, 10:30 PM

Good deal.

I concur with the diagnosis of air in the cooling system. You've got to purge the air out of both bleeders, and do it several times. One bleeder on the thermostat housing, one above the water pump.

**camusmuse** · 01-22-2007, 01:16 AM

I hear ya, I tried the bleeder on the tstat, nothing came out. I only had to drive a little ways, and HAD to get out of where I was working. I'll still have the system flushed, and obviously refilled, sometime this week. Any thoughts on "power" flushing?. Ive heard that it can do more damage than good if it breaks loose stuff that doesnt get out.

The other thing...it did throw a SES light when I first started it. It went to flashing, but before I could shut it off it went back to solid. Now it comes on and stays on. However the car runs great, better than ever really(changed what looked like the ORIGINAL sparkplugs too).

Anyay, this dawg is beat.....time to get horizontal.....gracias.

**camusmuse** · 01-23-2007, 12:11 PM

Was going to take the car up to Autozone to have them read the SES code this morning, but the light was off when I started it up. Took it around the block a few times and got up to temp. The gauge started to climb again but only made it half way this time then returned to normal. SES stayed off. Gonna have it flushed tomorrow and then gonna get my baby some new shoes.

Thanks again to all that replied and all that helped on all the other posts I read. This site is awesome, and nice fresh breath of maturity(which is not related to age!!!) from some of the other forums out there.

Any other newbs reading this that need to to the LIM gasket can feel free to PM for info. I feel like I could do it in my sleep now....lol. Plus it helps on the repeat LIM posts....

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