Plenum Swap: Can I go Backwards?

[WhiteRaider]

I know this sounds like a stupid question, but I'm moving to the People's Republic of Kalifornia and they have some pretty whacky engine swap regulations.

http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/StdPage.asp?Body=/Geninfo/Publications/Engine_Change_Guidelines-Jan_1994.htm

No internal or external engine modifications (cams, pistons, intakes, etc.) may be performed unless the parts are ARB-exempted or EPA-certified for use in the installed engine. Use the database on this site to search for aftermarket parts covered by ARB Executive Orders.

Now, I'm going to be putting a 3100 from an 02 Buick Century in my 4x4. However, if the inspector knows much about the 60 degree, he'll catch that I'm using a newer plenum than I should be. Since I'm going to be using the computer from a '95, the plenum from an 02 is a dead giveaway. So, to avoid hassles, I figure that it would be better to put an intake from a 94 or 95 on the vehicle that looks like this:



Instead of the newer.

I searched around but couldn't find a quick answer. Would the upper plenum fit onto my '02 lower, or would I need to swap the upper, lower, and the heads?

If it's just the upper, then I'll probably do it. Otherwise, I'm going to sell the 60 degree and go with a 3.8 from a Camaro or a 4.3. This is just getting too tricky.

I need to call the engine swap referee and ask some questions tomorrow too. I wonder if it's swapped in Texas if it will be easier to get through the referee in California?

[bszopi]

RE: Plenum Swap: Can I go Backwards?

Upper and lower would need to be swapped, but that's it.

[WhiteRaider]

Thanks. That's not too bad. After I got the sticker, I could just swap back. My next concern is the exhaust since I'll have to do some fabrication. That may be a show stopper too.

I really need to call and speak to a referee tomorrow. After all this planning and gathering of parts I'm going to be pissed if I can't do this swap.

You'd think they would be happy since I'm coming from a carbureted engine to a nice computer controlled setup. Instead, it sounds like swapping an engine that needs mods to work is a nightmare in Cali.

[Guest]

You said you are swapping this engine into a 4x4? Would this be an s-series?

If so, don't bother, don't even swap in a 3.8 or a 4.3, the only stealth swap for a 2.8 equipped s-series in Kali, is the 3.4, and that's even touch and go. To make it stealth you need to use all of your existing 2.8 parts for induction and exhaust.

[WhiteRaider]

No, it's not an S-series. It's not even a GM vehicle. It's a Dodge Raider 4x4 which was made by Mitsubishi in the late 80s. I'm not trying to make it a stealth install because it will be obvious to anyone who knows anything about cars that I have the wrong engine in this thing. I'm going to have to adhere to the California BAR guidelines on engine swaps here and get a sticker.

I need an engine from a newer vehicle, all the emissions controls, no modifications over stock (this is what's going to kill me with the exhaust I think), and the stock computer with the ALDL port and a working check engine light.

If it's going to be too much of a problem in Cali, it's time to get an old car that doesn't need emissions and swap the 60 degree into that. Those 60 degree MGs look nice...

Swapping in a 4.3l or a 3800 series II would be easier in a lot of ways for the 4x4 configuration. Especially the 4.3. 3800 headers are not as much of a problem and on a 4.3 there will be no oil pan or header problems. Mounts are easier on both compared to the 3100.

[Guest]

No, it's not an S-series. It's not even a GM vehicle. It's a Dodge Raider 4x4 which was made by Mitsubishi in the late 80s. I'm not trying to make it a stealth install because it will be obvious to anyone who knows anything about cars that I have the wrong engine in this thing. I'm going to have to adhere to the California BAR guidelines on engine swaps here and get a sticker.

I need an engine from a newer vehicle, all the emissions controls, no modifications over stock (this is what's going to kill me with the exhaust I think), and the stock computer with the ALDL port and a working check engine light.

If it's going to be too much of a problem in Cali, it's time to get an old car that doesn't need emissions and swap the 60 degree into that. Those 60 degree MGs look nice...

Swapping in a 4.3l or a 3800 series II would be easier in a lot of ways for the 4x4 configuration. Especially the 4.3. 3800 headers are not as much of a problem and on a 4.3 there will be no oil pan or header problems. Mounts are easier on both compared to the 3100.

Oh, ok.

Not that I'm an expert on Kali swap laws, but from what I have read, you're in for some headaches, especially since it's going into a completly different vehicle.

You'd then need to also use the SFI PCM, which in this case will be a nightmare to get working, due to all rest of the electrical system that is needed, BCM, etc. Unless you used a mid '90s SFI PCM, from an L-body or something similar that doesn't have the PASSLOK system.

[WhiteRaider]

You'd then need to also use the SFI PCM, which in this case will be a nightmare to get working, due to all rest of the electrical system that is needed, BCM, etc. Unless you used a mid '90s SFI PCM, from an L-body or something similar that doesn't have the PASSLOK system.

Yeah, it's going to be a nightmare for any engine that I get working. The vehicle currently has a 2.6l 4 cylinder which has poor power, decent torque, and crappy gas mileage. It's getting tired too. To rebuild it properly, it's going to cost at least $1200 if I do almost everything myself but then I'm still in for crappy parts availability. The gearing on the tranny and xfer case sucks and there are no easy tranny swaps for that engine. I'd rather do the hard stuff now, get a tranny and xfer case that have better parts availability and gearing and enjoy the truck for the next ten years or so.

Anyway, I've got an SFI ECU from a 94-95 Century which is a MAF only SFI. There is a GM definition file for this which goes for a manual transmission (although nobody has ever seen one). You can tune this file with Tunercat which is what I'm planning on doing if it needs any tuning. However, since I'm using a basically stock engine, it will probably run well enough for me without many modifications.

The reason that I'm not concerned about the complexities of this swap over another is that most of the problems would be encountered with any other engine. The Oil pan was a show stopper a while ago, but I found someone who can modify my pan into a 4x4 configuration for a couple of hundred dollars. Anyway, all this work and gathering of parts may not work for this vehicle because of the damn Cali laws.

I suppose I could just keep my vehicle registered in Texas for a while, but that would suck long term. If it becomes too difficult (again, I think the exhaust will sink it), I'll have to go with a RWD engine like the 4.3. I do like the gas mileage of the 3.8 though so a Camaro engine might work with a little more effort than a 4.3.

[Juglenaut]

Or you can sell for a dollar it to a good friend (have the bill o sale say 200 or so) complete with title change in a state that has less BAR rules, take a vacation and go do the swap and make it appear stock enough to pass the BAR. Buy it back for a dollar (Have the bill o sale say 200 or so 'Buy Back') and retransfer the title and go through the DOT inspects.

Just a wierd thought.

[WhiteRaider]

Just a wierd thought.

I don't think there's any chance of tricking the CA guys when I get it inspected, even if it is already done before I get there. The engine from the vin is a 4 cylinder carbureted job. I suppose it's possible that there's a loophole, but I would have to know that before starting. I really need to call a referee station and talk to someone - just have to track down a number. If I can't do the 3100, I know for a fact that the 4.3 is doable and has been done many times in CA. I just like the light weight, mpg, and parts availability of the 3100. Besides, I already have an '02 with only 27k sitting on a pallet. The mpg is something about the 4.3 that I'm not thrilled with.

I love the SWB Raider. It's got great approach and departure angles, can be fitted with 33" tires without major modifications, comes with 4.62 differentials, and is solid. The engine/tranny/xfer case are the only things that suck on it. I do want to keep it legal though.

[Mars]

did the raider have a solid front axle?

[WhiteRaider]

did the raider have a solid front axle?

No, it's IFS. A few people have done swaps but they come stock as IFS. Unfortunately, the IFS causes oil pan problems in swaps that would not occur with SAS.

I was thinking about doing a solid axle swap, but really can't afford to pay someone to do it and it's not something that I would want to tackle without experience.

Here's a pic of one with 33s. It's a Montero, but the 2 door Montero is the exact same vehicle as the Raider.



This guy put a solid axle on his two door. Mine's a daily driver so I don't think it will ever get that much work...

[Mars]

Well, if you can stuff the 33's in there without too much cutting, and IFS, you'll have a better ride.

Pretty cool little trucks, I have only seen one in my life, they are RARE up here.

I thought it was a Samurai.

[WhiteRaider]

Well, if you can stuff the 33's in there without too much cutting, and IFS, you'll have a better ride.

It doesn't take much work to stuff 33's on at all. You just have to crank the torsion bars and trim the bumpstops. No metal cutting required.

The trucks are pretty solid offroaders out of the factory. There are a few minor weak spots that can be cleared up, but overall, it's a very capable offroader.