3.4l rwd in a fwd car

[sharkey]

ive looked at the engine swap and the wiring. it is a lot different in the 86z24 than most. i have to change the ENTIRE dash harness, meaning most of the wiring in the car, and im not about to do this. the car is my dfaily driver and i realy dont want it off the road more than it has to be for the swap. i want to keep my stock ecm, and one big thing i do want ios the distributor. it gives a lot more tunable than dis, as i would need a custom chip to change the timing. i have seen gen 2 heads, my dad has ported some before for a truck with good results, and i think itll work out ok. and if i was going to be doing an engine swap, it wouldnt be to a 660, it would be to a motor that put out some serious power to begin with. eventualy may look at a hybrid with a custom upper plenum so i could still use the distributor, but thats way in the future.

anyone can do an engine swap, but it takes someone with real knoledge of a motor to build something out of what they have, and this is what im doing. this isnt the first motor i have built. im getting help from my dad on this as well, and he has built some killer engines over the years, and even killer motors out of "garbage" parts. he had a malibu wagon with a junkyard 427 with knurled pistons (junk stuff) smog heads, 600 holley, and not that great a cam running 10.90s. all the work is in the heads, and you just have to know what to do with them when you start porting.

[Guest]

Actually you don't need to change the dash harness, trust me on this, just a few pins at the passenger side dash to engine harness connector, I've done it.

For an N/A build I'd rather use DIS, with an adjustable crank trigger, like I'm using in my truck, true it was a lot of work (for my grandfather hehe) to make the custom crank trigger, but we made it adjustable, and really I hardly touch it, I think I have it set at factory specs right now. The only time I want to use a distributer is with a high power turbo build, due to no waste spark, but that's another story.

You should look at my truck, I have less than $2000 CDN into the engine build, turbocharging and the swap, I used a lot of what I had around, the parts that I had to buy that I originally didn't budget on, were the pistons, almost 1/4 of the entire budget was right there. Header tubes (box of bends) were another $300 and some, so almost half my total cost was in new parts that I originally didn't budget on, oh well that's how these things go.

For pics of my truck go here: www.domesticcrew.com/raven/James

[sharkey]

im sure i could have a lot of fun with a 3400 swap, but i have looked extensivly at both sides. i added up a gen 1 buildup to around $2200. now a 3400 swap is going to cost me more.here is what a 3400 will cost:

motor- $1200-$1500
front mount- $250
wireing harness (unmolested one)- $200
ecm- $100

now i havent priced out other things like power steering pump, alternator, rad hoses, throttle cable or some of the other thing i will need. im looking about the same price by the time im done, and im putting a USED motor in my car that may run fine for 6 months and puke on me, then im back to square 1. if i build a motor up, i have a new motor, not something i dont know the history on.

i plan to run nitrous evenualy, and im going to build the motor for it. i have spent a lot of time with my desktop dyno, playing with cam profiles, and seeing what is going to work best. yes the gen 3 heads flow better and are a better design, but there is nothing that says gen 1 heads cant be ported to flow as well (and if there is, show me and ill prove it wrong).

as i said before, in the future, i may look into building a custom intake for gen 3 heads were i can still run the distributor, ill do it. but for now im going to use gen 1 heads, END OF DISSCUSSION.

[bszopi]

Where are you looking for an engine?!?! I picked up a 2001 3400 for $450. I know of a couple people who have picked up very low mileage 2002s for under $300. The engine shouldn't run you over $1k, especially for a used one. Goto www.car-parts.com and do a search in your area.

[Guest]

Unfortunatly too many people actually pay over $1K for a 3400, I'll never understand why, when if you look in the right places or ask the right people, they can be had much cheaper.

Sharkey, You can play with your gen1 engine all you want, but as any engine builder will tell you, the power is made in the top end, in the case of the 660 the genIII design is the choice to go with if power and efficiancy are desired, all you have to do is look around at what people are making (power wise) with each design, you will see that any genIII headed 660 will be higher on power, and even a little more streetable in most cases. In an N/A application the highest I have heard of so far from a genI 660 is about 240 HP (Yes, that is a decent number), it took a lot of work, and would require custom ECM tuning if it was injected, it was carbed, which came with all the other headaches of carbs. A genIII engine, while I have not heard of a fully built one to the same extent as Oreif's genI 660, out of the box with some mild bolt ons, they are coming close to the same power level, with a lot more left in them. There was also Cumon's genIII (based) heads, they are actually Potter heads, it's 2.5L 660 making over 300 HP N/A. The proof is out there, and there are many more examples.
I can appreciate trying to build something that is different, but using the best flowing heads when building a performance engine will in 99% of cases produce the best results (most power).
It's your choice, do lots of work with mediocure parts to get ok results or less work with better parts and get better results.

[sharkey]

ive looked everywere for 3400 in my area, and they start at $1000 for a decent running one. you can pick up cores for $400, but thats a pretty runn down motor. (this is canadian money btw).

im figuring around 180hp at the crank with a built up 3.1l gen 1, and thats about on par with the 3400s. this is about what im looking for, im not looking for crazy amounts of hp, after all, i drive this car 75km a day for work. im looking for something with enough power to have a bit of fun, and open the bottle up at the track and having some more fun.

yes i know the 3400 is a far suppirior motor. i know the heads flow better, i know the oiling is better, but there is something to be said about building your own motor. part of the reason im doing this is to be different. everyone seems to do 3400 swaps. im the only modded cavalier around my area with a gen 1 motor, and im out to prove it still has its place.

anyways, whoever mods this can lock it now. its gotten way off topic and if it keeps up ill end up rippin someone a new one.

[donk_316]

ive looked everywere for 3400 in my area, and they start at $1000 for a decent running one. you can pick up cores for $400, but thats a pretty runn down motor. (this is canadian money btw).

im figuring around 180hp at the crank with a built up 3.1l gen 1, and thats about on par with the 3400s. this is about what im looking for, im not looking for crazy amounts of hp, after all, i drive this car 75km a day for work. im looking for something with enough power to have a bit of fun, and open the bottle up at the track and having some more fun.

yes i know the 3400 is a far suppirior motor. i know the heads flow better, i know the oiling is better, but there is something to be said about building your own motor. part of the reason im doing this is to be different. everyone seems to do 3400 swaps. im the only modded cavalier around my area with a gen 1 motor, and im out to prove it still has its place.

anyways, whoever mods this can lock it now. its gotten way off topic and if it keeps up ill end up rippin someone a new one.

Good for you. More people should try to be different. People ask my i do what i do. because no one else has.

[sharkey]

and thats exactly what im going for, and the reason i own a first gen cavalier, cause few people do.

[Guest]

Hey I own a first gen J-body as well, but I guess I like to make it easy on myself for making power, I also like the styling of older chassis' with newer more contemporary equipment and changes. I love the Chicayne and other cars by Troy.

Oh well to each his own, sometimes different as much as I like to be as well is just holding you back at times. I've learned this the hard way.

[sharkey]

dont get me wrong, if i had an 87, id have a 3400 in it by now, but being i havew to rewire the car, im gonna steer clear of it for the moment. if you knew the electrical issues i had when i got the car, you wouldnt ever want to touch a wire on it again.

[donk_316]

I made a few calls today around the Edmonton area for 3400's...found 3 for 1650 each or i can get one from CT, USA for 300 plus shipping. Its gonna be cheaper to buy one in the states and ship it then buy it an hour and a half north.

[Guest]

I have a aluminum block that can go into a FWD application, plus aluminum heads that are direct replicas of the iron heads. This will allow you to use all stock components pretty much but get better performance.



That is one pic. Heads and intake are for sale.

Email me if interested.

Shaun41178@hotmail.com

[Wolf]

sharky, it looks to me like you could bolt the cavs upper intake to a 2nd gen lower intake & heads, that would let you run the alum. heads and distrubter

if you did that had your block bored .030 over use the 3.1 crank and iron head 3.1 pistons (for 12 to 1 cr) and a huge cam you could make some serious stomping power

[sharkey]

no, the upper plenum on my car will not bolt to a gen 2 lower, ive tried. and if i use ironheads with aluminum head pistons, i will end up with 8.0:1 compression, not 12:1. if you user ironhead pistons and aluminum heads, you will end up with around 11:1.


i already have good plans for a 3.1l ironhead motor. a lumina apv van motor will be a good starting point (its a 3.1l fwd block with cast iron heads, and tb injection). itll be a starting point for my buildup, and i plan to use a fiero intake on it.