3800 Vs 3400/3500

[GPXSS]

so tell me what they updated besides the name.

[Justin]

1977
Odd fire design in early model year
Even fire design produced late in model year
Cylinder heads revised with new exhaust ports and cast rocker stands

1978
Harmonic balancer bolt changed from 5/8" to 3/4" (both versions were produced this year)

1979
Intake ports revised for better breathing

1980
Oil sump and feed passages enlarged from 0.500" to 0.625"

1981
New connecting rods with heavy section cap (they have 2 dots with #763 on the side of the rod)
New harmonic balancer and flywheel for different balance due to new connecting rods
Block revised for rod cap clearance

1982
M10x1.5 metric for accessory mounting holes on heads
Boss on the rear of block for Knock Sensor
Transverse FWD 3.0 V6 introduced in the Skylarkk (X body) with the FWD bolt pattern

1983
Head revised to remove iron at outside edge for valve cover baffle clearance
New intake valve guide seals to fit 0.546" instead of 0.600" guides.
Revised oil pan and valve covers with baffles

1984
New camshaft design with 0.030" larger base circle diameter
0.015" shorter push rods and 0.015" shorter lifters to accommodate base circle (8.703" vs. 8.718")
Oil groove added to the block behind cam bearing #1 and oil groove removed from cam shaft from the cam shaft
In mid-year, the 3.8 FWD V6 was added for the MFI Century T-Type

1985
Oil pan went 20 bolts from 14 bolts
New block, front cover and oil pan
Torque-to-yield non reusable head bolts

1986
Deck height reduced by 0.035" to accommodate 0.058" thick composition head gaskets
Torque-to-yield reusable head bolts
Water drain plugs added to block on both sides between freeze plugs
3.8 liter transverse FWD available
VIN B with flat lifters
VIN 3 with roller lifters
New heads/valve train with pedestal style rockers
Gerotor oil pump
Needle bearing camshaft thrust bearing (P/N 2553258 *which works great with the turbo 3.8s!
3/8" dipstick hole with O-ring seal on tube

1987
3.8 liter transverse FWD changes
Mid-year change to 0.057" longer push rods (7.966") to reduce
cold start noise
New timing chain cover and oil pump pressure regulator
7/16" dipstick tube with O-ring seal

1988
3800 transverse mounted FWD
New on-center block design with balance shaft for improved primary balance
Steel camshaft with improved precision tolerances
Crankshaft balanced with 50% on bob weights
Lighter Slipper skirt pistons with thinner rings for reduced mass

1989
3.8 liter RWD resurrected for special Turbo Trans Am 20th Anniversary edition
3300 (3.3 Liter) version introduced

1990
EV-6 VIN L with one piece rear seal introduced in the FWD Regal
Tuned Intake

1991
3300 version upgraded to one piece rear seal (blocks 25534816, 24502090, 24500498, and crank 25534817)
All 3800s have one piece rear seal

1992
3300 version heads upgraded to same as 3800 but they have one less bolt hole on intake side

And so on...

Just watch this, if anyone can make a 60 degree V6 with half the hp of this 3.8, they win a cookie.

http://fasttrackperformance.com/page5/Chow%20movie%20files/ChrisTTGN.wmv

[brian89gp]

Just watch this, if anyone can make a 60 degree V6 with half the hp of this 3.8, they win a cookie.

I know of a couple that are in the 400-450hp range and are still under 2BAR.

[RebelGT]

Last I heard that was no longer a 3.8, but a TT SBC...

[Rhedalert]

So that had to improve that engine every year? I wonder how good the original engine was

[Anonymous]

That GN is one hot car, but with every 3.8 they gotta boost the hell out of it to get lots of horsepower. Now I can't deny that I love the 3800 Supercharged cars, but Infinity G35 V6 is putting out 280hp without boost. It is an (expensive) 3.5DOHC, so I shouldn't be applying that engine to this thread. I just love that car... mmm.. if only I was rich.

[GPXSS]

Dont mean to come off as an ass Justin, but I really was talking about current (2000 and up) revisions. I can ramble off just as long of a list for the 60º

My point is that GM is getting rid of the 3800 so they are not putting any more research into it.

[v6h.o.]

My point is that GM is getting rid of the 3800 so they are not putting any more research into it.

yup, im suprised, (well not really i guess with gm being slow at putting things on the market) that the series II has lasted this long, back when i was in school (GM apprenticeship) in 98 they were talking about how the 3800 is dead and will be discontinued...

[Anonymous]

they could turn it into a Turbo diesel engine for Caddillacs and trucks.. lol

[Anonymous]

I'd be all for a medium sized TD for the S-series and half ton fullsize pickups. But I think it should be designed from the ground up as a diesel.

[Anonymous]

It could also be great for cars.. they could make a very fuel efficient vehicle. Maybe put it in something ugly like a Saturn SUV or something. Cheap on fuel.

[Sorin]

It could also be great for cars.. they could make a very fuel efficient vehicle.

Absolutely. Especially when you consider the staggering proportion of cars sold in Europe that are diesels. Small diesel engines in cars (sometimes with forced induction) do quite well over there, since circumstances call for it.

VW actually sells a couple of diesel cars over here. I don't have any personal experience with them, but when I was researching new cars to help someone I know with her decision, I came across an enthusiast board for the Jetta with the turbo diesel. Those cars/engines are apparently very mod friendly, aside from the crazy gas mileage.

[Anonymous]

one guy I know used to have an 89 Jetta diesel (I forget if it was turbo or not.. i think it wasn't). He said it got awsome milege. I've heard commercials on the radio for the Jetta TDI, and that it gets 900km per tank.

[Justin]

Yeah, I know we're talking mostly 3800 vs 3400/3500. I'm just saying, both engines have changed a LOT since conception. Look at an old Citation X-11 with the 2.8 and the junk 2 barrel on there, the 3500 is a pretty ancient design basically if you compare it to most of the competition. I'm glad the 60deg. is finally getting some cubes, and I'd like to take a new Malibu with one out for a tear. What confuses me is that rumor that GM is dealing with Honda to supply a new V6, why not just use the 3500? If GM gets rid of the 3800 and the 60 degree and goes with a pile of jap crap, I'm not buying any more GM. I'll buy a Dodge or Ford "shudder".

P.S. how fair is a 60 deg. vs 3800 thread on a 60 degree website anyway??? That's the only reason I'm defending the 3800...

[SappySE107]

Who said this was fair? Its just a discussion, not the final conclusion to be written into the book of time.