Cost of a Hybrid build...

[mongo]

Stand by for more hybrid drama.... I went to build the bottom end this weekend and ran into problems. I checked the ring end gap (I always measure and plastigauge during a build) and found my gaps were about double the max end of the range. I am waiting on a buddy to bring over a telescoping gauge set tomorrow to see why the bore (or rings) are so far off....

[mongo]

Looks like my bore is dead on correct. My pistons are also dead on. Looks like the rings are incorrect. I can see by the part number that they are the correct rings for my pistons and are .030 over just like the pistons per the box information.... they just aren't correct. I guess I'll call Northern Auto and see what I can do about this. I am thinking I will need to get rings that are .040 over and file them as necessary....

[ForcedFirebird]

no, you can't go about it that way.

The ring major and minor diameters change when they are oversize, not just the end gap. If you just file rings that are meant for a larger bore, then you may have problems. They are only cast iron, and won't flex much before breaking. You need to use .030" over only (and it's actually +.75mm)

[mongo]

I am calling northern auto to see what my options are with the Hastings rings. If these are the correct rings in the correct box, the another set of these will result in the exact same problem....

[loosenut]

well let start off by saying I'm new to this site, after reading this thread I noticed that you say you can't give away the 3.4 IH. well why is that? I have a 2.8 from an 87 camaro with TBI in my s10 with crank walk (insert foul language here) and I am doing research on my future build. Anyways what is the difference between the 2.8 camaro IH and the 3.4 IH, everything I see says nothing but I saw a post yesterday on this site that said they were indeed different. My point is, if they are better than what I have I will be happy to take this off your hands. And no I am not interested in a alum head swap at this time because I just fixed the wiring in my truck and am not up to this task unless it is plug in play. Sorry for the long post and I would like to see this build when it is done......I am also in the StL area.

[faster7]

well let start off by saying I'm new to this site, after reading this thread I noticed that you say you can't give away the 3.4 IH. well why is that? I have a 2.8 from an 87 camaro with TBI in my s10 with crank walk (insert foul language here) and I am doing research on my future build. Anyways what is the difference between the 2.8 camaro IH and the 3.4 IH, everything I see says nothing but I saw a post yesterday on this site that said they were indeed different. My point is, if they are better than what I have I will be happy to take this off your hands. And no I am not interested in a alum head swap at this time because I just fixed the wiring in my truck and am not up to this task unless it is plug in play. Sorry for the long post and I would like to see this build when it is done......I am also in the StL area.

A complete camaro 3.4 would be better than your 2.8, sure. What he's talking about with just the heads is.... that you can about as easily find a complete motor as you can the heads and the heads aren't worth anything to put on anything else.

[loosenut]

well my 2.8 WILL NOT be rebuilt as a 2.8, this was decided long before I came to this site. I am not new to the 660's or the vehicles they came in. And as far as the 3.4, not interested in just another engine swap, been there done that 5 times now. just figured i would ask about the heads since they were mentioned. I will be making a thread of my own of my projected build and not ninja this guys thread. thanks for the info though.

[mongo]

I do not believe there is any difference in the heads I have and the heads currently on your vehicle. The only advantage is that you can port and polish these heads while still driving your current vehicle. PM me if you want them.

Back to the subject at hand, Northern Auto is sending me out another set of rings...

[ForcedFirebird]

Hmm. Loosenut, this makes me wonder if the rings Mongo received were iron or aluminum head rings as there are two different part numbers, BUT as far as I know it's only the thickness of the rings that changed.

I really need to sit down and take notes as I have a set of both at the house, but remembering and having time to measure them seems lacking.

[mongo]

The heads or application should be irrelavent.... the diameter of the bore alone determines the end gap.

That being said, the Mahle pistons have a 3mm oil groove and most other manufacturers like Speed Pro have a 4mm oil groove. This limits my ring choices for my pistons.

On the up-side, Northern Auto Parts has been very easy to work with so far about getting my problem corrected....

[mongo]

Updated Cost

3.4 long block (supposedly with 80K on it and usable as is) and a bonus set of 2002 3400 heads (no rockers) off of Craigslist
-$150

Transport of block and heads from Chicago to St.Louis using rideshare on Chicago's Craigslist
-$60

New Sealed Power cam bearings from Advanced Auto
-$20

New Mahle pistons for a Transport Van .030 over from Northern Auto
-$40

Rings and Shipping for said pistons
-$100

Brass Freeze Plugs
-$20

Machine work (hot tank, bore and hone, cam bearing installation, freeze plug installation, clean and polish crank, press on new pistons)
-$286

Main Bearings (Sealed Power) Std
-$40

Rod Bearings (Sealed Power) Std
-$20

Teflon Rear Main
-$22

Oil Pan Gasket
-$20

Gaskets are not available for Hybrid motors as each one is application specific. In my case I am using a oil pan and timing gasket for an 86 Fiero and top end gaskets for a 96 Transport van. I thought this needed mentioning as purchasing gaskets seperately rather than in a set costs about 3 times as much as a rebuild gasket set would have cost....

$100 should cover custom pushrods

$285 is my quote to fully rebuild my heads

$149 is the going rate for a Comp Cams 160

$75 for a High Volume Oil Pump

$7 for a new pickup tube and screen

$35 for a new timing set

$20 for a Timing Chain Guide

This pretty much covers my complete short block build. I plan on checking out my heads myself before I take them to a machinist since they are supposedly pretty low mileage and may only need a little cleanup work.

This part of my project is coming to an end and I think this is a fairly accurate representation of what the average Joe will run into when attempting this type of build. A lot of things are not taken into account such as my custom wiring harness, sub assemblies (water pump, starter, ect), and all new sensors as the majority of builds are intended to replace an existing motor and re-use these components.

This concludes my hybrid build cost documentation for the do-it-yourself'er. Watch for my subsequent questions about how to make all of my dissimilar components work together!

A big "Thanks!" goes out to all of you who have helped me out so far and to those of you who will hopefully do it in the future!