Pinouts and Code masks

[robertisaar]

ok, we need at least a few people brainstorming....

we need(OK, not need, but i'd like to end this once and for all) to find out which piece of hardware holds the pinouts.

NOW past evidence and prejudices aside, we need to find a vehicle that used a 60* motor, but didn't have a pinout similar to A1,88,6D. now i've looked over DF, won't work, about the only differences were in the gear switches. i'm looking for like TPS/MAP/etc, something you wouldn't even have to start the vehicle to do, just hook up laptop, scan the values real quick and know if it'll work or not.

so basicly, what we need is a list of vehicles that used 60*V6 motors, the code masks they used, and wether or not anyone has one near them.

obviously the code masks listed previously won't work. what might?

(i'm trying to be civil and help spread this knowledge in the community, i don't give a shit about what it ends up being, i just want it found out.)

[SappySE107]

1988-1989 MAP = 6D
1990 = 88
1991-1994 memcal = A1
91-93 3.4 DOHC = DF
93 w body 3.1 = DF

I have no idea what you are trying to put together or why, because the wiring diagram does not matter for code mask. Its all ECM. Hardware, not software.

Start a new thread.

[SappySE107]

Nevermind, I moved these to a new thread.

[robertisaar]

Nevermind, I moved these to a new thread.

thanks...

what i had in mind was that if we found a ECM/PCM that used codemasks that DIDN'T have the same pinouts for different codemasks. has this happened, if not with the 60* motors, what about V8's or 4 bangers? what about the ECM's that are used in 4/6/8 cylinder engines with differing or exact same codemasks? i think i'm too tired to make any sense at this point, i'll see what i can think up in the morning.

[SappySE107]

corvette used the same ecm as the grand prix.

It may use different 5v sensors on different wires and then have the chip translate it, but I don't know why they would do that.

[bszopi]

The 7730/7727 ECM was used for many years in many different GM vehicles, from 4-cyl to 8-cyl.

http://tpiparts.net/ecms_and_proms/

This ECM is internally the same as the 1227727. The only difference is that the 1227727 is weatherproof and can be mounted in the engine compartment whereas the 1227730 cannot. The PROMs will interchange between these two computers. Harnesses will not interchange, as the ECM connectors are very different.

http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/p4xref.html#1227727

http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/p4xref.html#1227730

http://wiki.3400z24.com/1227727

[bszopi]

More info...

http://www.iroczone.com/techartpromid.htm

[robertisaar]

ok, i had some time so i looked over a few pinouts and found this:

1987 cavalier with 2.0TBI compared to a 1992 camaro with 5.0TPI

87 cavalier uses a9 for serial data, 92 camaro uses a8
87 cavalier uses c6 for "external vss", 92 camaro doesn't have it
87 cavalier uses c11 for injector, 92 camaro uses c11 and c12
87 cavalier uses d2 for "metal temp", 92 camaro doesn't have it
87 cavalier uses d5 and d7 for "jumper (injector), 92 camaro doesn't have d5, and d7 is a ground
92 camaro uses d6 as a ground, 87 cavalier doesn't use d6
92 camaro uses d12 as secondary cooling fan control, 87 cavalier doesn't have it
87 cavailer uses d13 as power steering pressure switch, 92 camaro doesn't have it
92 camaro uses d14 as a 4th gear switch, 87 cavalier doesn't have it
92 camaro uses e9 as EGR control, 87 cavalier doesn't have it
92 camaro uses f1 as m/t shift light, 87 cavalier doesn't have it
92 camaro uses f2 as AIR Port switch solenoid, 87 cavalier doesn't have it
92 camaro uses f4 as "convertor(divert) solenoid), 87 cavalier uses it for a/c relay control
87 cavalier uses f6 as shift light/tcc control, 92 camaro uses it as tcc control, but not shift light
92 camaro uses f7 as cannister purge solenoid control, 87 cavalier doesn't have it
92 camaro uses f9 for knock sensor, 87 cavalier doesn't have it
92 camaro uses f10 for PASS-Key signal, 87 cavalier doesn't have it

those are all the differences, but i'm not sure what to do with this information at the moment...

EDIT: unrelated note: thanks to that last thing that brad posted, i now know what the resistor pack numbers are for the obd1 conversion. it starts lightning fast, so i'm assuming the 3.4 start-up procedure works pretty damn well for a 3100 as well....

[bszopi]

There are some issues with your comparisons...

Check federal emissions standards between 1987 and 1992. Several of the items you listed as the 92 having and the 87 not having are emissions related, so there is a probable answer there. Also, the Cavalier doesn't have the 4th gear switch because they were no available with a 4-spd auto tranny. Other tranny issues I feel are also driven by the different trannies. Where there are differences, they are only slight and don't really cross over too many things. Let me try to explain that better...

87 cavalier uses c6 for "external vss", 92 camaro doesn't have it - do not see any VSS listed for the Camaro, so the lack of a pin means the Camaro ECM just doesn't need the VSS signal, and could be for multiple reasons.

87 cavalier uses f6 as shift light/tcc control, 92 camaro uses it as tcc control, but not shift light - This again most likely has something to do with the type of tranny used, but it is still basically the same functionality, except the Camaro has the shift light on F1, which is an unused pin on the Cavalier.

Other items such as secondary fan, AIR solenoid switch and PASS-key all depend on vehicle options. If they were located on a different pin on the ECM, then I could see where there would be a question, but they are not. Those pins just are not used. Therefore, all hardware is identical. Software is relatively the same as well, its just how it is used. If you wanted to add a secondary fan to the cavalier, you could probably find the code in the Camaro code and copy to the Cavalier code, hook it up to pin D12, and voila, secondary fan in the Cavalier.

[ghrarhg]

I'm not sure if this is what you're aiming at, but everyone seems to need it at some point or another.

https://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/quadplugecm.html

[IsaacHayes]

What resistor packs you speak of?

Does the 3.4TDC code start the motor faster than the stock 3100 code?

[robertisaar]

brad: right, i realise all of this, but i can't find a way to either prove or disprove how the ECM determines how to use which pins for what. 3400beretta stated that from what he has determined, he believes the pinouts are somehow stored in the resistor packs. both ben and myself believe that is not the answer.

the way i believe it works is that it is stored within the PROM. i think that the PROM has code in it telling the ECU which pins are associated with which sensors.

i don't know bens opinion on this, but i'm sure he'll chime in soon with his version.

ghrarhg: i looked for that for about an hour yesterday before finding it. not much i can do with it at the moment, but i'm sure it will help for future reference.

isaac: yes, the two sets of resistors that are next to the PROM: it feels like it starts it faster than the factory PCM did. maybe it was a fluke, IDK, but thats how it felt.

[bszopi]

I'll ask "a guy" I know to see what he has to say. He knows the inner workings of the GM ECMs pretty well...

[SappySE107]

Its all hardware. Its kind of like saying the cpu in your computer is what makes the usb port a usb and the keyboard port for keyboard. cpu won't change this because you have other controllers inside the box taking care of those functions.

Brad, the cavalier has 2 fan support built in and is the next line of code in the .bin. Just doesn't do anything without a fan hooked up

[bszopi]

Here is the response from a guy from GM...

"Seems they are a bit off base here. The Pinouts are detemined by the ecm set up and how they made it. The pins are tied to outputs/inputs. The resistor pack or MEMCAL is for fuel back up and ESC. You would be supprised how many times the ecm starts off the resistor pac at low battery states. That's the reason most will run without a cal or prom inserted.
Pins are not determined by the memcal. If it was then one ECM would work for all.
The prom pins are for the ecm to access the addresses for the calibrations."