Complete Roller engine Where is it?

[Joseph Upson]

/rant, sorry, I'm just as upset that I can't afford to go and see family even - plane tickets for 6, or 11mpg. I guess mom is going to have to wait to see my children. Pumps stop at $75

I included this line in my post to address people in your situation:

Quoting myself,

"the ones I've seen were not being used in the capacity their size would dictate.

To each his own, but to all who own anything like it and uses it in the capacity of the typical passenger car (one or two people driving to work) I don't want to hear you whine about fuel costs"


My concerns were for those who have it just to have it, not individuals that actually fill it to or near capacity and actually have a legitimate use/need for it.

[ForcedFirebird]

I included this line in my post to address people in your situation:

Quoting myself,

"the ones I've seen were not being used in the capacity their size would dictate.

To each his own, but to all who own anything like it and uses it in the capacity of the typical passenger car (one or two people driving to work) I don't want to hear you whine about fuel costs"


My concerns were for those who have it just to have it, not individuals that actually fill it to or near capacity and actually have a legitimate use/need for it.

That's exactly why I went back with the second post. I get grief all the time from friends and family alike, especially if the are energy conservative.

I'm just sick of our free country being exploited by "takers". Where did all the "givers" go?

Anymore life is all about how much money you have, instead of true assets that even the horrid economy can take away.


Again, let's gat to the matter at hand.

I'm not sur it would be all that difficult to use a roller type cam bearing, any more thoughts on that?

[Joseph Upson]

Some time ago I believe I found the chevy roller bearings about $40 for a set to be almost perfect for the the V6 as well. I thought the cam journals were the same or nearly, it's been a while.

click on the picture icon;

http://www.cvproducts.com/cv/products/defaultResults.aspx?keyword=cv851

http://www.cvproducts.com/cv/products/brands.aspx?brandID=35

[ForcedFirebird]

Some time ago I believe I found the chevy roller bearings about $40 for a set to be almost perfect for the the V6 as well. I thought the cam journals were the same or nearly, it's been a while.

click on the picture icon;

http://www.cvproducts.com/cv/products/defaultResults.aspx?keyword=cv851

http://www.cvproducts.com/cv/product...spx?brandID=35

The cam journals in the block for the 660 and SBC are identical.

EDIT: $43/ea is not bad either, that's only a little over $170 for the set!

[Joseph Upson]

The cam journals in the block for the 660 and SBC are identical.

EDIT: $43/ea is not bad either, that's only a little over $170 for the set!

No, that's for the set, look at the descrip, it states the # of bearings in the set.

[sprucegagt]

Is that to suggest roller rockers, roller cams, and ball bearing turbos are an enigma because there is no apparent benefit over the previous designs they replace?

Is it true that shell bearings can handle more rpm than ball bearings, given that most high rpm electric motors use some form of roller bearing as opposed to a friction bearing? (I really don't know), and if they can does it really matter in a gasoline engine which would not spin at a high enough rpm for it to be an issue.

Block work to accomodate such a modification was an option not necessarily a requirement. Bearings can be made to have housings clamped into place in the same manner the current bearings are. The most likely machine work would be align boring the mains to a large enough bore to accomodate the proper size bearing. Align boring and main cap upgrades are already being done as routine block work so that doesn't make it an expensive quest.

This is just an idea that I'm very confident we will see some version of at some point. The cost to produce an experimental engine may pale in comparison to the potential benefit that can result. Let's say it takes $2k to produce the test motor and it works fine and produces a fuel economy increase of 12% (mind you it takes a lot of energy to turn that oil pump at current pressures). Gas prices are going to be $5 before the end of the year, if I could add 6 mpg hwy to my fuel economy it would be worth it.

And as far as cost goes, I bet it would be a lot less labor and investment intensive as developing the variable valve timing in a DOHC motor that's for sure from a production stand point.

You may think that's a stretch at first but to me it's about like carbuerator vs. fuel injection.

You may frown on the idea now, but some years from now when you are sitting behind one of my 50 mpg gas powered 300 hp V6 engines, write a letter to the company referencing this thread and I'll invite you to the plant for a "How It's Made" walk through.

Be easy guys.

Dream big my man, dream big! It's what the future is made of.

But my question wasn't about what could be produced in the future, but how can it help me now. In particular, what is being produced now (i.e. the roller cam bearings) that will help my 60V6. The last I knew, you still had to machine the block to make them fit because they were not a direct replacement.

[ForcedFirebird]

No, that's for the set, look at the descrip, it states the # of bearings in the set.

Well, in that case, who's ordering a set? I might have to check them out on the 3.1 I pulled out this weekend

[onefastV6]

Well, in that case, who's ordering a set? I might have to check them out on the 3.1 I pulled out this weekend

I would be interested to see what the results would be..... worst case you have machining access!

[tractorman]

In all my years of working on heavy equipment, I can only think of one common application for roller bearings in an industrial engine. A Series 60 Detroit uses tapered roller bearings (much like wheel bearings on a pickup... but precisely preloaded from the factory) in the 'bull gear', which essentially runs the entire geartrain of the engine. The setup works well enough, and commonly lasts 800,000 miles or so. The main drawback to these roller bearings (as opposed to plain ol' bushings used in similar applications) is that when they fail... it's often without warning and it's often catastrophic.

Where a bushing would just gradually become loose and cause oil pressure loss... these roller bearings will run for hundreds of thousands of miles- then quite suddenly come apart, distributing chunks of metal throughout the geartrain. The bull gear shaft suddenly has 1/4" of clearance. Gear teeth slip... pistons hit valves... it ain't pretty.

Detroit redesigned the Series 60 geartrain in 2002, and replaced those troublesome roller bearings with a single cheap brass bushing. I've yet to see one fail, and long-haul trucks of that vintage are often at 600,000+ miles by now.