alright so i wasnt sure bout this -> engine problems

[94Camaro]

hey everyone.

my 3.4/3400 hybrid is having issues. i went to do what brad did and put the 2000+ 3x00 intake on with the 1996 3100 heads i had on the motor, seeing as how my ported 2000+ 3x00 heads werent done yet.

i also "pulled a brad" -- forgot the article was on this site, and managed to collapse 4 lifters... and then some, bent 4 pushrods, and a VALVE! well after spending two weeks trying to figure out the car, and then taking the car and shoving it on a mechanic who i am sure fucked it up for me so id have ot bring it back and pay him more money (just cant figure out wtf he did to my car) -- im at this point :

car runs ok. when i step on the gas i get stumble/misfire..like... sounds like small detonations happening inside the engine. knock sensor on Auto X-ray reads max of 6 - not showing any knock retard.

trying to figure out why this would happen..the plenum is pretty close to the cowl - in the f-body the engine sits 1/3 under the cowl (stupid GM) so i managed to get it under there, with 1/8th inch clearance between the 3400 plenum and the cowl. not very much to work with, but hte car runs like i said.

my concern is, wtf is wrong with my car. i cant go wot from a stop or the car stalls, if i step on the gas more than 50% while accelerating it stumbles..feels like its gonna stall or something..detonation i guess -- not sure. i havent checked my ign module but havent had a reason to unless one of you says i should...

i dunno on this one -- im fresh outta ideas. i AM running the stock 3.4 RWD program which includes like max of 60* of spark advance while cruising (max that i saw on auto x-ray couple of weeks ago)

i've talked to ben but thought i would ask aorund... i did try putting a ECM from a 1995 Monte Carlo into my car, it didnt help the problem one bit. and my speedo stopped working (shrugs)

anyway...

any info / help would be appreciated.

[Corpse]

Which injectors are you running with? the old set or the 2000+? If the newer ones are Multec 2 style I think that would help to cause you a problem.

It sounds to me like a possible lean condition? Does this Auto X-Ray program you have output O2 sensor info and/or Throttle Position Sensor info? It would be very helpful for diagnosis.

-Dave

[94Camaro]

yea ill get a scan on the way home tonite and post it. im running the injectors i BELIEVE off of a 1996 3x00 engine. or at least whatever used the same fuel rail. it didnt say what year / engine it came from, but it is the 3x00, and the fuel injectors have a grey band on them..not sure how much it helps.

edit:
The Auto X-Ray btw, is a handheld device that plugs into the ALDL port. i have it in my car at all times (or i try to )
VERY handy. works on any OBD I car (they have a OBD II Model too)

anyway..i let out the clutch a little to give the engine load and i did a scan while parked (e-brake on, but clutch out a bit and slipping and letting the engine drag on it..) not sure how good that was for the engine, but it did make the computer think that it was moving (i think)...no problems, heres the scan:

Engine Run Time: 2343 seconds (i had just finished driving for 45 mins)
Coolant Temp: 205.7* F
Battery Voltage: 13.3 V
Manifold Air Temp: 66.5* F
MAP Sensor: 1.99 V
Barometric Pressure: 4.70 V
Throttle Sensor: .98 V
Throttle Angle: 10%
Engine RPM: 1586
Knock Sensor: 2
Knock Retard: 0*
BLK LRN Cell: 4
Air To Fuel Mix: 14.7
Injector Pulse: 6.4 mS
Right Block LRN Value: 140
Right Integrator Value: 125
Right Oxygen Sensor: 92 mVolts
Idle Air Meter Position: 80 steps
Fuel Pump Sense: 13.3 V
Spark Advance: 33.9*
CCP Duty Cycle (never quite figured this out): 0.0%
Left Block LRN Value: 144
Left Integrator: 130
Left Oxygen Sensor: 712 mVolts
Block Learn: Enabled
Air Divert Solenoid: On (i think this is the AIR pump in the front, i have removed this....)
Oxygen Sensor (left): Ready
R Rear Oxygen Sensor(right): Ready
Closed Loop A/F: Enabled
Cam Pulse: Detected (i have DIS on this motor, came with it from the factory)
Evap Tmp Clutch: Enabled (??)
Injector QDM: Low

well...thats all of it (thats really relevant. it also shows A/C Pressure, EGR status (i have removed the EGR cause the pipe that connected it to the headers broke - the actual HEADER broke :-/ ) -- as well as some other things, but its like, is the clutch depressed, etc etc...stupid crap. thats all the pertinent engine info i could see. if you want a full readout i could edit in th einfo that i didnt put. but trust me its all stupid crap (vehicle speed: 0 mph) lol...

anyway, hope this helps.

-R

[DEI37]

Looks like it isn't lean, but I find the O2 readings interesting. I don't know much about this kind of data, or how to interpret most of it, but having one O2 at 712mVolts, and the other at 92mVolts just CAN'T be right, can it? Common sense tells me they should be close to the same. Possible faulty O2?

[SappySE107]

A single point in time is pointless for figuring out the O2. It switches rich to lean too fast to really do any good without a time slice of a few seconds at least.

Stop using the 3.4 iron head programming, thats a big NO cause spark timing is gonna be too fucked up for your aluminum heads. Get larger injectors, from what you told me they are damn near static at 2500 RPM and WOT. Actually, 21ms is beyond static as far as Iknow, but maybe not for 2500 RPM. Your computer fueling is way off, 140 and 144 BLM is unacceptable. Screw the 95 ECM, that gets you no where. Get a FWD ECM and wire that in, and we can tune that bitch properly.

I have no idea if you have any mechanical issues, but your computer is fucked, period. 3.4 iron head programming will get you no where with your hybrid.

[94Camaro]

the 95 ECM was from a FWD Monte Carlo (1995... 3.1L FWD / 3.4L DOHC FWD in the Z34)

so it is a FWD ecm lol. just not one that can be programmed easily.

[Corpse]

The O2 reading is a bit off or the engine is runninng really poorly in one bank. i think you should try some higher octane fuel and monitor the sensor readings.

[SappySE107]

How can you say that?

[94Camaro]

how can i say what?

[Corpse]

About the higher octane fuel? - I'm just saying that due to the fact that it could be rather high compression if it is a RWD 3.4 with 3400 or 3100 heads. I just figured that it is worth a shot to see if it helps anything. Also, I can read it right here from the GM Engine Manual but, I just opened hat now to see what GM recommends. Also, it is just basic knowledge that detonation MAY be avoided by using a higher octane of fuel. Sometimes, other factors are the problem though.

Or about the O2 being off? - If it was that far out for a short while it is fine but, if it is constantly going way up and way down there may be an issue.

Plus, I really was just trying to shoot out a few suggestions.

-Dave

[94Camaro]

<scratches his head> heres the specs ppl:
1994 3.4L RWD Iron Block
2000 + Aluminum Heads w/1.76 intake / D Shaped exhaust ports
2000 + lower/upper intake manifolds / TB
1996 (i think?) Fuel Injectors / Rail
RKSport Headers
Rods = stock 3.4 RWD forged steel
Crank = stock 3.4 RWD Nodular Iron
cam = stock 3.4 RWD cam
lifters = hydraulic flat tappet
pushrods = 1996+ 3.1L (FWD)
Rocker arms = 2000+ roller fulcrum
pistons = made for aluminum heads (i MADE SURE the engine rebuild shop used these when i paid to have the motor rebuilt) - compression ratio: 9.5:1
(thinks) ECM = 1994 3.4L RWD Ecm. Manual Tranny - DIS - SFI
fuel pump: stock 1994 3.4L
Fuel Pressure Regulator: came with 1996 + fuel rail

hope this helps some. ive been talkin to ben a while bout this motor, so he knows more than anyone about it.

o yea : i did a Wide Open Throttle run last nite and did a log of it, ill post later tonite.

[SappySE107]

say the O2 sensor readings are bad, or good, or relevant at all? Its a 1 frame section that just showed the O2 at whatever voltage it was at. They move really fast and switch rich/lean, so that value is irrelevant.

I know your specs:P

[94Camaro]

yea yea..but they didnt know em. and that was an answer to the "high compression" question that was um..indirectly raised..

anyway..heres the WOT Run from last nite -- was in fifth cruising a bit, so i downshifted to 4th, and just flat out floored it, felt the engine jerking and stumbling like nasty..detonations i imagine..and just hit "scan" on the auto x-ray... after it beeped i let off. here are the FULL results:

Engine Run Time: 3092 seconds
Coolant Temp: 197.6* F
Battery Voltage: 13.4 V
Manifold Air Temp: 65.6* F
MAP Sensor: 4.80 V
Barometric Pressure: 4.80 V
Throttle Sensor: 4.58 V
Throttle Angle: 99%
Vehicle Speed: 57 MPH
Desired Idle: 750 RPM
Engine RPM: 2468
Knock Sensor: 2
Knock Retard: 0*
BLK LRN Cell: 8
Air to Fuel Mix: 12.6
Injector Pulse: 21.7 mS
Right Block Lrn value: 136
Right Integrator: 129
Right Oxy Sense: 924 mVolts
Idle Air Mtr Pos: 121 Steps
Learned Idle Pos: 41 steps
Fuel Pump Sense: 13.2 V
Spark Advance: 21.7*
CCP Duty Cycle: 99%
A/C Pressure: 69 PSI
History T Codes: 1 Stored (39 Torque Converter Clutch Error)
Left Block Learn value: 137
Left Integrator value: 128
Left Oxy Sense: 893
A/C Evap Temp: 66.5*
EGR Solenoid 1: off 2: off 3: off (i have removed the EGR tho)
Block Learn: Disabled
Air Divert Solenoid: On
Oxygen Sensor: Ready
R Rear OXygen Sense: Ready
Closed Look A/F: Enabled
Cam Pulse: Detected
A/C: Not Requested
A/C Clutch Relay: Off
Fan Number 1: off
A/C Clutch: Disabled
A/C WOT Logic: False
A/C Pressure Fan: Not Requested
A/C Forced off: N o
Evap Tmp Clutch: Enabled
Clutch Depressed: Yes (no it wasnt..crackhead computer)
Injector QDM: Low

thats all of it. everything the thing scans for. anyway..i was hauling ass at that point..went from like 35-57 pretty damn quick :-p now if i only could get this damn problem to go away, i could dyno..im bettin i got around 190 rwhp (i hope)

anyway...ben yes i know i already talked to you bout this, but this is for the guys that i haven't talked to. im already checking into getting a bigger set of injectors, an AFPR, a Walbro Fuel pump (255lph), replacing the fuel filter, and getting a ECM from a 93 Fbody (727 memcal) so i can have it programmed :-D

cant wait to get all this fixed so i can see what kinda power shes puttin out.
thanks for all the replies and help so far

-Russ

p.s. -- even tho i have that 39 error code for a TCC Error - i have a Tremec T5 5speed Transmission, and a Spec Stage 3 Clutch in the car, put the spec in myself even so i dunno whassup with that error..

[SappySE107]

Isnt showing any KR, which I think is odd. Spark isnt too bad for WOT, little high but its not way off anyway. I think sotck 3.1 programming aluminum head is about 16 degrees there, maybe 18. I dunno why it says 21.7 ms though, your BLM and INT arent that bad this time.

[94Camaro]

btw - realized i never told anyone what was wrong with this.

i found the solution finally. after paying 2 mechanics close to 400.00 (together) and spending three months on the project, i was under the hood while the engine was running and my shoulder tapped the DIS coils. caused the whole car to die.

i was like..ok.. and turned the car back on and while it was running tapped the coils again, and it sputtered. i figured i might have to replace the coils, so i turned off the engine and set to taking them off to test them, when i noticed that one of the screws that holds the whole assembly down (cause i had to modify it and make a special set of brackets) and gives it a ground was loose. the nut that held the screw tight had fallen off. so that everytime the car hit a mild bump, or i floored it, the DIS coils would move off their ground, short circuiting the whole assembly.

after getting another nut and reattaching the screw, the car ran beautifully (as well as can be expected anyway with the high advance)

thanks for all the advice ppl i love this site heh.