4T60E and other junk automatics

[oleman]

HELP!
Over the years I have owned 3 ea new from dealer front wheel drive cars, all american designed and all have had xmission failure in under 100,000 miles. The cars were an 86 ford escort a 90 ford taurus and a 96 corsica. These were all normally driven and serviced family cars. Every part of the ford drive train on both cars were bad at 100k miles except the 3.0 cast iron engine it was fine when the car had to be towed away with no forward gears.
After the ford problems I switched to a gm car thinking it would work better, later I discovered the taurus had a gm xmission?
There are good automatic xmissions, I have a 32 year DODGE with a 440 ci engine and a tf 727, it has never had a real problem except for seals going out and clutches and bands after 30 years. It always worked even worn out.
I also have a 93 NISSAN 2.3 ltr pickup with 180,000 miles with an automatic that is still ok. I believe the xmission is a GM!
By the way, the gm3100 is like the ford xmission, crap, now I find the xmission is also crap. At least the brakes and suspension are good.
I am not sure what my next car will be because I no longer trust any of them!

[GPRacer]

automatics

There's your problem buddy.

[patgizz]

automatics

There's your problem buddy.

uneducated comment.

[tractorman]

automatics

There's your problem buddy.

yes, we know... you're puttin' in a 5-spd. Good for you, bud!

oleman- Just curious... did you sercice that corsica transmission regularly? 'Cause if you did, then failure at 100K miles is crap.

I don't know that I'd agree that the 3100 is a bad engine though. The intake gaskets suck, but other than that it seems to be a damn good motor. I've got a '94 corsica with 145K miles on it and the original motor and trans. are fine. I've had to change the intake gasket on the engine, and more than one alternator. Other than that it's been a real good car.

[sharkey]

none of those vehicles you have listed use the same tranny

86 escort- atx 3 peed, ford(later escorts used mazda f4a-el)
90 taurus- its an axod, or axode, ford tranny
93 nissan- thats a jatco RE4R01A
honda, gm and chrysler use their own transmissions. ford sometimes uses mazda trannies, and same with mazda using fords. mazda and nissan use the same tranny (all jatco units). hundai, and toyota bounce around a bit, bmw uses gm trannys, and vw uses their own garbage.

i work in the industry. typicaly, the newer domestic transmissions fail 100-150k km. some see more, some less. they are not as expensive to fix as an import. imports usualy last longer, but realy cost ya when they need rebuilds.

[96mcls]

none of those vehicles you have listed use the same tranny

86 escort- atx 3 peed, ford(later escorts used mazda f4a-el)
90 taurus- its an axod, or axode, ford tranny
93 nissan- thats a jatco RE4R01A
honda, gm and chrysler use their own transmissions. ford sometimes uses mazda trannies, and same with mazda using fords. mazda and nissan use the same tranny (all jatco units). hundai, and toyota bounce around a bit, bmw uses gm trannys, and vw uses their own garbage.

i work in the industry. typicaly, the newer domestic transmissions fail 100-150k km. some see more, some less. they are not as expensive to fix as an import. imports usualy last longer, but realy cost ya when they need rebuilds.

also some Volvos use GM's 4t65e, yes Volvo as in owned by Ford

[Doubt_Incarnate]

Re: 4T60E and other junk automatics

tf 727, it has never had a real problem except for seals going out and clutches and bands after 30 years. It always worked even worn out.

Ditto... 1968 FuryIII with a 318. tankish brute. it didnt stop for anything except alternators, and that because it had an autozone replacement. even when most of the valves were bent and all the pushrods were too due to slack timing chain skipping a couple teeth, and it had almost 200K on it and im pretty sure the trany was original and untouched.

with every car, there are problems. my explorer has a thing that they call a transmission (5r55e), i call it a problem waiting to happen. my cavalier had a 4 speed stick (muncie M17), 2nd gear went on it. the isuzu built 5 speed (MT2, not the new 6 speed) i have in it now? grinda matic 5000 when you go into reverse, with the clutch pedal fully depressed i might add. both the escorts (?) we've had (91,96), no probs there. the 86 ranger we had, m5od manual tranny locked up at 200K+. aerostar, a4od (or maybe 4r55e) electronic awd: 2 rebuilds both after 100K. moms 96 bravada with the 4l60e? blew a line and pumped itself dry, fried the internal harness, rebuilt, then failed about 30K later and was rebuilt before 100K, then rebuilt again after 100K, now it has 187K on it.

oviously they dont build them like they used to. now they have alot more parts, and thats more to fail.

[sharkey]

yup, the ford small rwd transmissions. they are all junk. the a4ld (not a4od) is a pile of scrap. in 95 ford decided they needed to make it electronic, changed the valve body and added a speed sensor and called it a 4r55e. in 97, for some reason they decided to make it a 5 speed. all they did was change the shift programing to apply overdrive in 1st gear, then making your old 2nd gear now 3rd. all i can say with a 5r55e, if you ever feel the slightest flare on the 2-3 shift, take it in and get it looked at. they are notorious for blowing valve body gaskets out (in 10 years now, ford hasnt fixed this problem) and it causes a slight flare, to start with. ive seen this problem cause $3500+ rebuilds because of the damage it does, from something that can be fixed for a couple hundred bucks.

yes volvo does use gm trannys despite being owned by ford. jaguar also uses gm trannys (the th400 in the 70s and 80s, the 4l80e in the 90s). to add to this, the new 6t70 and the 6l80 are a joint design between ford and gm. neither can design a tranny worth a crap, so i guess we will see if they can put thei heads together and build something that lasts for more than 100k km.

[Doubt_Incarnate]

all i can say with a 5r55e, if you ever feel the slightest flare on the 2-3 shift, take it in and get it looked at. they are notorious for blowing valve body gaskets out (in 10 years now, ford hasnt fixed this problem) and it causes a slight flare, to start with. ive seen this problem cause $3500+ rebuilds because of the damage it does, from something that can be fixed for a couple hundred bucks.

did the tsb update myself. parts tools and book all cost me like $200 or less where as it would have been $800+ in a shop. the actual parts ford sells you is a replacement plug for epc blowoff (big around as a dime about 3/4" thick) and a seperator plate with bonded gaskets and "hole 50" deleted. ironicly, you are suposed to have parts left over. and you throw them away.

i believe there are kits for 4t60e's out there from superior that are supposed to solve small problems in the valve bodies.

[sharkey]

well, $800 is a bit out there for fixing the valve body gasket problem. the shop i work at charges 2 hours labor and for the gaskets, plus a fluid and filter change. i think in the end its around $300. we dont use the plate from ford, we get aftermarket gaskets from our supplier. all you realy need is an inch/lb torque wrench.

[RednBlack]

Only 1 GOOD automatic. Slip and slide Powerglide! (Only AT you could push start) Most of the rest are average. 4t60-e is close to the bottom of the list. In stock condition. My 3rd rebuild is holding up very well. And I have been known to abuse things....

Someone please reinvent a 2 spd Powerglide for FWD.

[sharkey]

actualy, thats not true. you can pushg start a torque flight 6, later revised into the 727. most of the older 2 and 3 speed trannys are very good, tough units (im talking 727/904, th350/400, c3/4/5/6). thing is, they are far outdated. the newer electronic are better for fuel economy, better for power, and far more manipulative, if you have the means to controll it. thing is, vehicles today are only designed to last 100k km, through the warrenty period. cars now a days are meant to be tossed at 100k km.

[RednBlack]

Planned obsolesents.

[malibu SS]

the biggest failures are caused by constant driving in OD, i always use 3rd auto instead of 4TH /OD ....hey my 4t65e in my 06 malibu ss failed at 1800 miles....but that was due to a assembly flaw....thiose old automatics you could pull start, actually were able to do that due to having a rear /or 2 trans oil pumps.......out of all the gm FWD trannys the one i have noticed goes the longest while maintaining it is th 125...except for the lock up circuit problems, but that happens in most gm lock up trannys....oh, and band failure in the 125, but that is a pretty quick fix if it starts to fail!

[SHOoff]

A transmission is like anything else. It's not going to get a real long life if it's not properly serviced at regualr intervals. You can't just expect it to go forever on it's own.

the biggest failures are caused by constant driving in OD, i always use 3rd auto instead of 4TH /OD

Uhm....... wtf? Thanks for using all the extra gas. OD is nothing but the torque converter locking up in 4th gear, while you're cruising. On the 4t65 trannys it's set up so you cant even feel it shift in/out of OD. Plus on the newest trannys, even in lockup mod the converter will slip a few rpm. Not to mention that it's electronic. If you drive long enough with resistance (into high wind, uphill) it'll realize this and will disable the OD on it's own.