What RWD Automatic transmission options do we have?

[BMC]

Hi Guys,
I think most people who know me, know that i do a lot of Camaro 3.4L motors with T5 manuals in MGs and other cars. Well, a new era has arrived for me. We are going to do one automatic. That said, i have also told people that they are a "magical" device to me in the sense of which one is best in the following:
Fitting into a small space,
Gearing,
complications,
longevity of product.

Let me say what i do know and any info from there would certainly help:

This car will run its standard PCM that is set up for either a T5 (for non-computer controlled gearboxes) or a 94-95 PCM for the 4L60-E automatic.
Now I assume that the 4L60-E would be the best box for fuel economy, possible upgrades(?) and more, but i have not one idea about the size difference between it and the earlier 4L60 or the metric automatics that came before it in S10's, 2WD Jeeps, Camaros and so on. Also, dont know if these are perfect interchanges between each vehicle or if there is ANY difference in the casing, gearing or anything. Does anyone have any tips, other websites or information to pass along? Any pictures of the early 1980's Camaro/S10 system from behind a 2.8L compared to the 3.4L 4L60-E?
Thanks in advance,
-BMC.

[WhiteRaider]

The 4l60e, the 4l60, and the 700r4 are all the same size and basically the same transmission. Pretty much all of the parts are interchangeable between any of the three models. The 4l60 and the 700r4 are hydraulic and the 4l60e is electronic.

The 4l60/700 have two different bolt patterns. Just make sure you get the S-10/V6 Camaro case rather than the SBC pattern. Since you can run one with the stock computer, definitely go 4l60e.

I'm into 4x4 vehicles and off roaders do a lot of engine/tranny swaps with the 700r4 because they are hydraulically controlled rather than electronically and they are pretty strong trannies. Here's some information (a lot of it is 4x4 centric) that may be of use to you.

http://novak-adapt.com/knowledge/4l60e.htm

http://www.geocities.com/crosley_az/transize.htm

http://www.tciauto.com/tech_info/trans_dims.htm

http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/tech/trans/yj700r4p2/

All of the trannies are geared 1st 3.06, 2nd 1.75, 3rd 1.00, 4th 0.70 . It was used in a wide variety of vehicles from stout V8s to small engines. They are matched to the HP/Torque of the engine. IOW, you wouldn't want to get a tranny that was made for a 300 HP engine and put it behind a 140 HP engine.

Camaro V6 and S-10 2wd trannies would be your best bet unless you are doing some major power mods on the engine. Any transmission shop can help you with modifying the 700/4l60 tranny.

[sharkey]

your best bet would be a 4l60e that came factory behind the 3.4l. use the computer and wiring harness from that vehicle and your set.

there are some other options though. if you used a manualy transmission pcm and wiring, you could use a 700r4/4l60 (fyi, they are the same tranny, just different names). a small issue would be hooking the throttle cable for the tranny to the throttle body of the 3.4. also you would need to do some extra wiring to make lockup work, and the speedo may not work right.

another option would be to use a manual trans wiring harness and pcm, and use a 4l60e and tci stand alone controller. why go this route??? with the tci controller you can tune the tranny to do what you want. you can tweak shift points, lockup engaugement, even set full throttle shift points so it will always shift at a specific rpm. another cool feture is you have the option of adding paddle shifters, so you can have tapshift.

[Piper106]

Another option. From what I have read on the internet, starting in 1984 until ???? Chrysler Torqueflite transmissions (maybe branded as AMC Torque Command) were installed in Jeeps with the 2.8L V6 engine and also the AMC 2.5L four cylinder (which had the same flywheel end bolt pattern as the 60 degree V6 engine). The old 2.2L K car OHC four cylinder, now grown to 2.5L in the current Jeeps and Dakotas also has had the 60 degree V6 bolt pattern since 1996 or so.

Looks like Jeep started in 1984 with the plain 3 speed non-lockup all hydraulic TorqueFlite 904, moved to the 3 speed lockup converter version still all hydraulic (refered to on the off-road.com webpage as the 909), all with the 2.8L V6 bolt pattern. Don't know if there was a Jeep 2.8L version of the 4 speed overdrive lock-up TorqueFlite, the model A500. The current 2.5L Jeeps and Dakotas use an electronic controlled version of the 4 speed, designated 42RE, as I recall.

While not as strong as the larger 727 version of the TorqueFlite, the 904 was supplied behind the 273 and 318 V8s, so it should have enough beef for a 3.4L. Don't have data on the later versions.

Gears: 904 2.74 low, 1.54 second, 1.0 high, A500/42RE same except added a 0.69 overdrive top gear.

Weight: As I recall, per a Hot Rod magazine article, the 904 TorqueFlite weighed in at 105 lbs, about 20 to 25 poinds lighter than the GM TH350.

I am assuming that a output shaft and a tail case from a slant six Duster or what ever could swapped into a Jeep version of the 904 TorqueFlite for a RWD version of a trans. This gets us to the length issue. A 904 is 22-1/4" long from the bell housing to trans mount, 31-3/4" overall with RWD tail housing. The A500 is 24-1/2" to the trans mount and 34-1/2" overall witha RWD tail. This might be a problem, AFAIK the drive shaft on an MG is none too long, and the extra length might be a killer. Maybe use the shorter Jeep 4WD output shaft with some sort of custom tail case, or modify a Jeep transfer case adapter into a RWD tail.

Sources; www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/trans www.jeeps-offroad.com tech article titled "Engine Swap Bell Housings" thread 4740, Street Rodder magazine June 1997 issue starting on page 134 "All About the Mopar 518 Overdrive Trans" (despite title article included data on the 904 and A500).

That is all I think I know.

Piper106

[sharkey]

i forgot about the 904 being used behind the 2.8l and having a small gm bolt pattern. the 904 uses a hydralic lockup, and it can be a pain sometimes. some later versions had an electronic lockup, they were reffered to as the A999. the A500 is a 904 with electronic lockup and overdrive. in order to make both work automaticly you need govoner pressure switches, vacume switches, a bunch of extra wiring, ect. IMHO, this isnt the way to go. the A500 is pretty big in the tailhousing area, may not have enough room for it. if you went with a 904, you have a just a plain old outdated 3 speed.

if you wanted a 3 speed, you could use a gm TH200 or TH200c. they are used in early 80s v6 rwd carsthey are smaller than a th350, and lighter aswell. the 200c has lockup.

i personaly think your better off with a 4 speed. a lot of street rod, street/strip cars and cruisers are going to 4 speed autos. many are even using the full ellectronic stuff. there are a lot of advantages to a 4 speed. you make better use of your powerband, way better fuel economy, less abrupt shifts, ect.

[Piper106]

I agree, the TorqueFlite is down the list on transmissions I would put behind a 60 degree V6, but BMC wanted options, so I gave him options. I agree, I'd go with the 4L60-E also.

Piper106

[BMC]

Hi Guys,
Thanks for the response. I did a "quick reply" with some additional info and questions, but it did not save it. Whats up with that?

Anyways, I am going to start off the info you gave, but also wonder about the early S10. Didnt they also have a 200 metric or something like that?

I will probably start with the 4L60-E anyways, but need to know options if possible.

Thanks!
-BMC

[bszopi]

The current server has been acting kind of funny lately... sometimes you really have to wait for it to post. And sometimes it'll post 2-3 times if you hit Submit more than once. Hopefully the new server won't have these issues...

How about the new 6L80E? From what I've read, it'll be adaptable to just about anything!

[BMC]

Is it the same or smaller dimensionally?
I was just reading about the websites that you guys sent me and see some of the benifits to the 1996 and newer, but unless a Jeep or other vehicle with the 60 degree bolt pattern also has that bellhousing... but if one does, I would love to know. Also if one does, what side is the starter pocket on?

Thanks guys!
-BMC.

[bszopi]

The 6L80E is supposed to be the same size, if not slightly shorter, than the 4L60E.