RWD Bellhousings

[smilinguy99]

I'm looking for a bellhousing for a V6/60 that has starter pockets in both sides of it. I've got an old book (1982) that has a photo of this thing, but it says it came from a Camaro. It has the Muncie/T-10 transmission bolt pattern, and the transmission is oriented level, but the guy at CamaroHeaven says all Camaros from early 1980's to present have the trans tilted 15 degrees toward the driver.

The book may be wrong. It may actually be from an S-10.

I dunno. In any case, I've been looking for one of these things, no joy.

Got one? Any clues?

Attached are some pix. The two pocket is supposed to be a 2nd gen camaro. The single pocket is a 3rd gen. Note tilted trans mount.


sg99

[smilinguy99]

I did not find the original GM two-pocket, but I did find this bellhousing made to fit a V660 in an MGB:

This is made to use FWD motors with the starter on the left side in RWD applications. If you are interested, they are sold from www.killerbv6.com

sg99

[chvyrulz350]

not only have i never heard ,seen, or guessed there was a dual starter holes bellhousing for a 60 degree
my best guess is its will fit a 82 to prob 84 s10
they used a t10 4 speed variant staight up on the 4 sylinders and they might have also planned for it to fir a v6 but i dk
i will look in my s10 manuals but ive never seen one also it might fit and 82 -83 camaro because you couls get a 3rdgen with a 4 cyl but y do you need one with both pockets you might be able to use a 4cyl t5 bell on a fwd v6 or modify by cutting out a chunk of bellhousing of a regular rwd bell

[smilinguy99]

I don't need two pockets. I'm trying to get the left pocket. That is, left as viewed from the driver's seat in a RWD car.

This two-pocket bellhousing was a way to get that. However, I recently spoke with a fellow that has one of these two-pocket bellhousings, and he said the left pocket is in the wrong place for the starter on a FWD motor. Gotta hack the thing up anyway. No sense in that.

This killerbv6.com item is one made to fit a GM 60° V6 into an MGB.

There are far more FWD 60° V6's out there than RWD. This bellhousing permits the more common FWD motor to be swapped into a RWD hot rod. Thus my search has ended.

This killerbv6.com bellhousing can be ordered with a Ford or GM register bore, but it only comes in the Ford T-5 bolt pattern. That's fine.

sg99

[chvyrulz350]

lol ok its souds like you are on top of it
o and this is one time i will say ford is better
there are plenty of aftermarket parts for the ford t5 like hipo parts for the trans straight cut gears far wider gearing selection so hard hard but not hard part will be the clutch all you have to do is go to a clutch shop and they will hook you up

[smilinguy99]

Thanks for the tip on the Ford parts.

Does Ford have any place on the web where they list the T-5 parts? I was set to buy a new one with replaceable dog rings and all kinds of goodies, but if I could assemble an acceptable one from junk, and do it cheaper, that would be pretty swell.

Thanks,
sg99

[Greg55_99]

Hey SG99,
The bellhousing you're showing with the starter pocket on the left (drivers) side and the straight up Ford bolt pattern is from a 94-95 Chevy S10 with the 2.2L L4. There is also an early eighties Jeep CJ bellhousing that bolted the Ford pattern T4/T5 to the Jeep 2.5L L4 which also has the GM 60 degree bolt pattern. Starter pocket is on the right (passengers) side.

Greg

[Greg55_99]

Two other RWD bellhousings of note are from the 88-00 Jeep Wrangler and 96-00 Dodge Dakota. Since the Jeep and Magnum 2.5L L4 has the GM 60* bellhousing pattern, the following gearboxes can be made to bolt up to them.

Wrangler 2.5L bellhousing fits:
Jeep AX5
Toyota Supra W57-W58
Toyota Truck W55, W56, G52, G58

Dakota 2.5L bellhousing fits:
Jeep/Dodge AX15, NV3550
Toyota Supra Turbo R154
Toyota Truck R150F, R151F
Isuzu AR-5
Chevy, GMC MA5

Greg

[Greg55_99]

Excellent RWD info from Barry Knight

"There are two very different transmission to bellhousing bolt patterns; the tall-narrow Ford pattern and the wide-flat Chevy pattern. All Ford T-5?s (I-4, V6 and V8 ) use the Ford pattern. Chevy I-4 T-5?s also use the Ford pattern. All Chevy V8 T-5?s use the Chevy pattern. Chevy V6 T-5?s from ?82 to ?92 used the Chevy pattern, but Chevy V6 T-5?s from ?93 to ?95 used the Ford pattern.

Input shafts are another issue. All Chevy T-5?s have an input shaft length of 7.18 inches. Ford V8 T-5 input shafts are also 7.18 inches, but Ford V6 T-5?s are 7.85 inches and Ford I-4 T-5?s are 7.41 inches. All Chevy T-5?s have a pilot bearing extension with a diameter of 0.590 inches. Ford I-4 T-5?s are also 0.590 inches, but Ford V6 and V8 T-5?s are 0.668 inches. The pilot bearing size is not really a big deal; both Jeg?s and Summit sell Chevy to Ford or Ford to Chevy pilot bearings.

All Ford T-5 input shafts are 1-1/16? diameter with 10 splines, but Chevy input shafts can be either 1? or 1-1/8? diameter with either 14 or 26 splines. You would probably need a custom-made clutch disk to use a Ford T-5 with the Chevy flywheel & pressure plate. Again, not a big deal; Quartermaster will put about any hub in any disk ($$$). This could also apply to using a Chevy V8 T-5 with the Chevy V6 engine.

The input shaft housing on a Chevy T-5 is 1.375 inches in diameter; on a Ford T-5, it is 1.430 inches. If you use a hydraulic throw-out bearing, it must match the housing. The input shaft housings may be interchangeable; I?m not sure.

Chevy T-5?s have two different shifter locations; on the front of the tailhousing (S-10) or the rear of the tailhousing (Camaro). All Ford T-5?s have the shifter on the rear of the tailhousing, but they are 1-1/2? further forward than the rear shifter Chevy.

All Camaro T-5?s have a tilted ?foot? for the transmission crossmember mount; S-10 T-5?s and all Ford T-5?s have a level foot.

Chevy V8 T-5?s have a 2.95 first gear while OEM Ford T-5?s have a 3.35 ratio. The high performance aftermarket Ford T-5?s have a 2.95 first gear.

Since all Chevy bellhousings are designed for a 7.18 inch input shaft length, only a Ford V8 T-5 will work unless you change the input shaft. Obviously, you will need a Chevy bellhousing with the Ford bolt pattern. To my knowledge, there are two possibilities. The Chevy I-4 S-10 bellhousing will bolt up to a Chevy V6 engine and has the Ford bolt pattern (the transmission mounts level). Unfortunately, the starter pocket does not line up correctly for either a FWD or RWD Chevy V6 engine. This bellhousing might work on a FWD V6 Chevy engine (left side starter) if you use an aftermarket starter that does not have a ?nose.?

As far as I know, the only practical way to use a Ford T-5 would be with a bellhousing from the ?93 to ?95 Camaro V6. This bellhousing will only work with a RWD iron-head engine (the starter pocket is on the right side). It has the Ford bolt pattern, but mounts the transmission tilted 17 degrees to the left (all Camaro T-5?s are tilted like this, ???). With a Ford T-5, you would need an adapter (simple to make) at the transmission crossmember mount to compensate for the tilt.

The bottom line is that you can use a Ford V8 T-5 behind a RWD Chevy V6, but there are some definite issues. It would be a lot simpler and probably more cost effective to rebuild the appropriate Chevy T-5. The parts are readily available at a reasonable cost and a T-5 is not difficult to work on. You would have a good transmission and could choose the gear ratios you want.

I think I probably told you more than I know and more than you wanted to hear. I learned most of this the hard way and some of it may be wrong. If so, somebody let me know."
_________________

If you want to use a FWD Chevy V6 engine with a Chevy V8 T-5, things are a LOT easier.

The '82 - '92 Camaro V6 bellhousing has starter pockets on BOTH sides and it will work with BOTH FWD and RWD engines. A couple of people have mentioned that some very minor grinding may be needed for the stock FWD starter nose to clear the inside of the left side starter pocket on the bellhousing.

The '82 - '92 Camaro V6 bellhousing has the Chevy transmission bolt pattern, so the Chevy V8 T-5 bolts up OK. The transmission will be tilted, but it was designed to be that way. It may have been Brian who mentioned that the tilt makes the speedometer cable hookup a little easier.

IMHO, the aluminum head FWD engines are the better choice (lighter and more HP), especially the 3400. There are no carburetor style manifolds for the aluminum head engines, so you will have to go with EFI and you will have deal with the backwards water outlet and air intake position. I understand that the manifold base can be turned 180 degrees, but I believe there is an interference issue between the water outlet and the top of the FWD timing case where the P/S pump mounts. There are people on this forum who can speak to this issue.

I have already gone too far down the RWD engine road to change directions. If I had known then what I know now, I would have gone with the FWD engine.

Unless there is a strength issue with the MGB 3.90 rear end, I don't see why you can't use it. There is not that much difference between 3.90 and the 3.73 that Brian recommends. There are lots of Alpine V6 conversions using the stock 3.89 rear end (with hardened keys for the wheel hubs) and Alpines use a smaller tire (less than 23" diameter) than MGB's. Remember that the V8 T-5 has a 5th gear OD of 0.62 to 0.68 so your RPM at 70 mph should be around 2600 which is just about right. "

So many choices, so little time and money!
_________________
Barry Knight
Conyers, GA
bknight46@comcast.net

[RidgeRunner]

Re: Excellent RWD info from Barry Knight

The '82 - '92 Camaro V6 bellhousing has starter pockets on BOTH sides and it will work with BOTH FWD and RWD engines. A couple of people have mentioned that some very minor grinding may be needed for the stock FWD starter nose to clear the inside of the left side starter pocket on the bellhousing.

But not all of them had starter pockets on both sides, right? I have what is believed to be an '85 or '86 V6 Camaro T5, and it has a single pocket bellhousing. It does have the tilted mount, but it also has places cast into it that could probably be drilled and tapped to mount the trans level.

[Cliff8928]

You also shouldn't have starter clearance issues if you use a late-model gear reduction style starter, it's significantly smaller..

Cliff Scott
89 BerettaGT
89 Volvo740

[mythos21]

On the question of right or left starter mounting, can it be done either way? I'm trying to get a "factory" unmolested belhousing to make my 3.4L DOHC motor rearwheel drive. I have plenty of room for either setup in my(believe it or not) 93 RX7 TT. I want to add a T-56 six speed w/.5 final gear since I'm leaving in the cars original 4.101 rear end.

[Greg55_99]

I think these are both Camaro bellhousings but I'm not quite sure of the application and years.

Greg