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F40 6 speed sent one to the junk pile

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  • F40 6 speed sent one to the junk pile

    This transmission is known to have problems with cold 1st and 2nd gear shifting. In my case, the first sign of trouble was ocassional gear scraping shifting into 6th gear in addition to the typical chronic problems.

    The first sign there was a serious problem was when a gear whine developed after a boosted run that sounded like cupped tire noise at first but coincided with acceleration load in 1st through 3rd gear.

    On one particular evening the 6th gear scrape became more pronounced and shortly after that a loud whine occured that was aggravated by deceleration in 1st gear. After that I knew the tranny status was critical. I continued to drive it for about 2 wks until I could get it back to Florida, making through a couple of near tranny lock ups that turned out to be pieces of metal wedging between gears.

    I submitted the pictures to a Saab tranny builder since that's what the F40 originated in and he attributed the failure to fatigue and guessed without any hints that I was running a solid flywheel and solid clutch disc which is correct.

    His recommendation is to run a sprung hub clutch disc and a flywheel in excess of 14 lbs if not dualmass. Apparently 1st, 2nd and 6th gear are on the same axis and that's why I had chronic problems and associated noises with those gears.

    He also mentioned that the cure for the difficult cold shifting is to run the tranny at near half capacity as some how the proper fluid level contributes to the shifting difficulty. He runs his F40 at 2qts instead of the recommended 3.1 and uses Redline 85W, behind 400 lb/ft.

    The first brief abberant sound is the clutch disc noise, apparently the little springs vibrating in it.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Guest; 02-19-2012, 05:56 AM.

  • #2
    Holy beejesus.....that's not good.
    How much power are you putting through yours again?
    The recommendation for running the fluid that low kinda surprises me - over a quart lower is a pretty significant loss of fluid.
    Kinda feeling better that I'm using the factory DM flywheel in my application.
    Matt
    2000 Oldsmobile Alero GLS sedan
    3400/3500 hybrid, Diamond Racing forged pistons, Scat I-beams, TCE DRTC, ported heads, WOT Race cam, PAC 1518s, Manley valves, F40 6-speed with Quaife LSD

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    • #3
      Originally posted by mfuller View Post
      Holy beejesus.....that's not good.
      How much power are you putting through yours again?
      The recommendation for running the fluid that low kinda surprises me - over a quart lower is a pretty significant loss of fluid.
      Kinda feeling better that I'm using the factory DM flywheel in my application.
      This transmission may have already been damaged when purchased from the salvager. That's a broken blocker ring seen in the pics in pieces and I imagine a possible slide hammer like action could have occured in the accident if it was hit on the driver side.

      It may have seen as high as 400 lb/ft but otherwise should have been in the 300 lb/ft range since it spent a brief period behind the HO motor and it was in limp mode most of the time. I believe lugging the tranny might have contributed also prolonging exposure to the pounding spikes that might have been dampened by the dualmass flywheel which couldn't hold my power level and is the reason it is not on the car.

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      • #4
        284 time

        96 Z34 3.4 SC DOHC Getrag, 284 5sd manual transmission, stage 3spec clutch, 97 engine, 97 pcm, S3 intercooler 1 of 1 Roots SC LQ1 in the world 8.5 psi.

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        • #5
          My 3.4dohc/f40 is using the dual mass flywheel and stock clutch. It's been running beautifully without any of the reported noises. It shifts into gears so much more smoothly than a 282/284. So far it's been great but basically if I want to upgrade the clutch I'm fucked?

          -GREEN 1995 Pontiac Grand Prix SE - L82/5spd MTX +
          -White 1995 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP - 97 207DOHC/6SPD MTX +

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          • #6
            Originally posted by gpchris View Post
            My 3.4dohc/f40 is using the dual mass flywheel and stock clutch. It's been running beautifully without any of the reported noises. It shifts into gears so much more smoothly than a 282/284. So far it's been great but basically if I want to upgrade the clutch I'm fucked?
            Upgrade the clutch to what? The stock clutch is just shy of a solid hub equivalent which means about 90% of the dampening is performed by the flywheel so you are unlikely to feel much if any difference regardless of what clutch you use. The OE F40 disc is probably equal to or a little larger in diameter than the 284 disc not to mention the 2000 lb clamping pressure of the F40 pressure plate, I had it measured so it's pretty strong. If you upgrade anything it will be the flywheel because it's torque limited to probably less than 300 lb-ft from what I was informed by a SACHS (manufacturer) rep.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Joseph Upson View Post
              Upgrade the clutch to what? The stock clutch is just shy of a solid hub equivalent which means about 90% of the dampening is performed by the flywheel so you are unlikely to feel much if any difference regardless of what clutch you use. The OE F40 disc is probably equal to or a little larger in diameter than the 284 disc not to mention the 2000 lb clamping pressure of the F40 pressure plate, I had it measured so it's pretty strong. If you upgrade anything it will be the flywheel because it's torque limited to probably less than 300 lb-ft from what I was informed by a SACHS (manufacturer) rep.
              Like if I went to a solid flywheel and puck type clutch. Seems that everybody with this setup had noises. I think you're the first one to have a trans fail but it seems inevitable with that setup.

              -GREEN 1995 Pontiac Grand Prix SE - L82/5spd MTX +
              -White 1995 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP - 97 207DOHC/6SPD MTX +

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              • #8
                Originally posted by gpchris View Post
                Like if I went to a solid flywheel and puck type clutch. Seems that everybody with this setup had noises. I think you're the first one to have a trans fail but it seems inevitable with that setup.
                The guy that rebuilds these things although they come from the factory as non serviceable units as in fix it with a new one, suggested at a minimum a solid flywheel of at least 17 lbs and a fully sprung hub in place of the dualmass fw. He has an F40 behind a Saab at around 400 lb-ft. The dualmass flywheel is a must to keep the tranny quiet at idle unless you raise the rpm to around 950 or so.

                Can't say the trans failure was inevitable with my setup given the number running solid flywheels behind V8s with many more miles than mine that haven't failed yet. Until I get the thing dynoed and confirm much more torque than the typical HO 350 V8 I can only speculate it has it.

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