4T60e Performance Build

[ImColeTrickle]

I have a 1997 Grand Prix GT with the 4T60e and I am about to start putting more pre-turbo mods on it (HV3, Front Plog, Rockers). And then im going to look into beefing up the transmission. Anyone have any suggestions on parts to put in it?

[timg]

Are you sure you have the 4T60E and not the 4T65E? At least with the Monte Carlo, they swapped from the 4T60E to the 4T65E in 97. I know the GTP had a 4T65E-HD in 97.

Raybestos used to make upgraded clutches and bands for the 4T60E. I'm not sure if they're still around. Some of the parts for the 4T65E can fit. Try someone who does extensive performance builds on the 4T65E-HD and they're likely to have a line on parts for the 4T60E.

Years ago, this is what Raybestos said.
"We do have some gen2 Blue Plate Special
performance friction plates available for the 4T65E that will work in the 4T60E.
The parts that will retro-fit to the older 4T60Es are the input and third (both
the internal and external splined) friction plates. We will also be
offering a modified third clutch that has been proven in GM?s Pontiac Sunfire
driven by Marty Ladwig. It controls the stress and temperature within the pack,
which leads to increased capacity.
...
Input:
Raybestos # is 577770

Third:
Raybestos #s are 577710 & 577720"

Transgo also had a shift kit for the 4T60E.

If you want a higher stall speed torque converter, the factory Quad4 torque converter is dirt cheap and rated for 2800 rpm. With a larger boosted engine, it will stall higher.

Tim

[ImColeTrickle]

So do you have the 4T60e? Cause 325 whp is more than I am looking at eventually getting out of my car?

[timg]

I do have a 4T60e. I shattered the input shaft and destroyed all of the bands and clutches, but then had it rebuilt with some beefed up parts. Since the rebuild, it's been doing great.

Tim

[3400-95-Modified]

I would be curious to hear where you got these clutches...

I got lucky and found a Z-Pak for the 65e that I can use in my 60e, But I think my input and maybe 2nd pack needs to be either shimmed up or changed, I'm currently running all Stage 1 clutches for the 60e and they have been ok, but the 1-2 shift seems to be too slow and I'm starting to wonder if that's due to it slipping.

I contacted Raybestos about a few of the items... I'll see what they have to say.

[timg]

My rebuild was probably back in 2002 or so. I'm not too sure where everything came from. I know better parts came out after that, but I think a lot of parts have also been discontinued. I think ZZP and Engineered Performance still have a line on 4T60e parts though.

Tim

[3400-95-Modified]

Raybestos said all of the clutches I asked about are still made and in stock... I tried contacting WIT to see if they could get me the said Blue input clutches, and possibly the third clutches to compare them to my z-pak I have since I don't want to throw that in quite yet.

I still need to find a way to make 2nd gear hook harder and faster

[ImColeTrickle]

Thanks for the input guys. Everyone on the grand prix forums keep telling me to swap in the 4T65e but I dont want to mess with my wiring. Im gonna email ZZP again today and ask how much hp theirs can handle

[talon2swords]

deleted.

[bob442]

4t60e probably won't last long, I would get a wiring harness from a 97+ and swap in the 4t65, your car is heavier than guys running 4t60's, and parts are more available for the 4t65. I havent driven my car much yet but the 2400 stall I got done is on the money, and does seem high, stock was 2150 iirc, i also geared it down to a 3.29:1 with the diff.


Sent from my iPhone using my iPhone at work cuz I have nothing to do

[timg]

I always thought it was funny that the answer to 4T60E woes was to swap in a 4T65E when a lot of the "upgraded" 4T65E-HD parts are stock 4T60E parts. I'm certainly not saying the 4T60E is strong, but stock for stock they're quite similar. The biggest difference is that the aftermarket has focused on building 4T65E-HD parts and adapting the stronger 4T60E parts. You don't really get a stronger transmission unless you spend a lot of $$ upgrading it. That's why I have a 4T65E-HD sitting in my garage instead of in my car. It was weaker than the 4T60E I already had and would cost $$ to beef up. A manual transmission swap may/should be much cheaper and stronger...

Tim

[robertisaar]

so, fair question:

what from the 4T65E-HD can be swapped over to a 4T60E and have it be an improvement?

[bob442]

Look, I'm not trying to beet a dead horse, please take that much from me, but your building for a turbo w body car, which weighs alot more than berettas with 4t60's, what you get with a 4t65hd is larger heavier planiteries.
Beefing up either trans I would say don't waste money on fancy clutches unless your planning for over 400hp. Otherwise make all your clutch packs nice and tight starting with adding a steel to the 2nd pack, and swapping different thickness Borg Warner weaved clutches. Use Borg bands and space them if need be to make them tighter, this can be done with a welder on the end of the pins that put the pressure on them. After that there is kits available for the accumulators, there is new designed pistons and better springs. From there I would upgrade atleast your ttc and apc sol.'s with a better/newer design. Any hard parts that are interchangeable I'm not sure of. But a google search should aid you.


Sent from my iPhone using my iPhone at work cuz I have nothing to do

[Z26-T]

I always thought it was funny that the answer to 4T60E woes was to swap in a 4T65E when a lot of the "upgraded" 4T65E-HD parts are stock 4T60E parts. I'm certainly not saying the 4T60E is strong, but stock for stock they're quite similar. The biggest difference is that the aftermarket has focused on building 4T65E-HD parts and adapting the stronger 4T60E parts. You don't really get a stronger transmission unless you spend a lot of $$ upgrading it. That's why I have a 4T65E-HD sitting in my garage instead of in my car. It was weaker than the 4T60E I already had and would cost $$ to beef up. A manual transmission swap may/should be much cheaper and stronger...

Tim

Here's a big list of parts that you can replace. Obviously you won't need to replace everything listed.

http://60degreev6.com/forum/showthread.php/45950-4t60e-Performance-Rebuild-kit.?p=421199&viewfull=1#post421199

I priced out everything on that list (a month or 2 ago) and it was about $730 not including upgraded clutch discs (still haven't been able to find those listed). If you'd like the excel sheet I can give it to you. But like timg stated, a manual swap can be cheaper if you can find all the parts locally. One of the biggest expenses is deciding on the clutch you want to run, and how much time you want to spend performing the swap. I've never heard anyone complain about having done a manual swap. But as you can hear from these other guys, if you build the auto trans it'll hold together. I decided on going manual because typically they're faster due to the gearing (if you can shift quickly). If you want to race a consistent bracket, a auto trans may be the choice for you.

[Dave96z34]

Iv invested over 7 grand in transmissions iv given up on the auto's. If I ever go back im rebuilding my own transmissions. But yes in bracket auto remains supreme consistent.