Automatic 4t60 / clutch experience

[yeyo_racing]

My trans is slipping when changing gears while on boost in 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd. It's only been 7 month's since I rebuilt this one and thus I'm planning a new rebuild.

However, I need to know what are the best clutches out there that can be fitted into a 440t4/4t60 trans. Alto? Raybestos? BW? Also what are the best steels. Kolene steels? Regular steels?

This trans was previously rebuilt with a mix of Raybestos / BW tan frictions and stock steels and didn't held up to 6 pounds of boost. It runs ok while normal but on boost it slips. I need something that can hold the abuse for at least a year of weekend track racing and some street racing. I want it to shift fast and strong and hold at least 10 to 12 psi.

Any input will be greatly appreciatted.

[gpse3400]

Well one of your problems, which this is important, are you using a vacuum modulator ment for forced induction? Because if you are using an N/A one then you are defintely going to burn it up. You could also get the adjustable modulator, if you don't have one already.

[3400-95-Modified]

Well to be honest, with my application so far so good...

I believe the 4t60 is similar enough to the 60e to accept all the same clutch packs, so to be honest I'm running stock steels, the Raybestos Stage 1 clutches in all 4 gears and I probably have the trans pressure a bit higher than normal by using the adjustable modulator, and thats probably the biggest deal.

I know there is ONE Raybestos Blue pack out there for the input, and then there is also the Raybestos 3rd gear ZPak which goes in a 4t65e but will fit the 4t60e... However there is nothing more than the Stage 1 for the 2nd gear drum.

Only issues i had this last year was the 4th steels being not so smooth and wearing high spots on the clutches which somewhat burnt them... They never slipped and I never over powered it in 4th and with were the wear marks were I knew it was either high spots or I got something between the two during the build.

Other than that the rest of the clutches looked a-ok after my many 13.0's and 12 sec passes last year... So I'm not 100% sure on the power levels but that may be close to comparable to what you may want.

Just remember though, I am only applying this pressure to the trans at the track with the spray... where as with the turbo setups your always expecting the trans to support that power level, so my experience may not be 100% comparable.

[yeyo_racing]

Thank you both for your replies.

gpse3400

I do have an adjustable vaccum modulator. I adjusted it to the firmest setting that would allow a 1st gear down shift at a dead stop. I say this because initially I had it too tight and the trans was not going down to 1st when I stopped. So I kept backing it down until downshift to 1st was achieved.

I do need to point out that during the first two months I was running the car I didin't have the check valve installed inline with the vaccum modulator. I didn't know it was needed after I saw a post regarding these trans. I think this could have done some initial damage to the trans while running the car on boost. Not sure about it though.

3400-95-Modified

Thanks for sharing your experience. I would love to see my car on 12 secs, believe me that would shut up a lot of import guys up and a debate I have with friends of mine regarding manual vs auto. Although our setups are different I don't believe we are running that far apart horsepower/torque wise. You have hybrid engine which should make considerable power N/A. Mine is a 1st gen iron 2.8 with a lot of mods and turbo, which should be making less power than yours off boost. Boost in my engine doesn't kick in fully until about 3000 to 3500 RPM's thus daily driving shouldn't be that hard on the trans.

My plan is to redo the trans with internal parts from a 65-e, at least as much as I can fit in it. If I'm not mistaken TurboGTU was trying to achieve something similar but never got around to it, see thread here -> http://www.tgpforums.com/index.php?topic=3300.0

Also, I want to shimm the accumulators to gain fast/firm shifts. The current trans does has a transgo shift kit, but that didn't firm/speed up the shifts as I wanted.

If I successfully do this I can fit either Blue plates with Z pack or Stage-1 kit without problems. Therefore, I wanted to know the experience with these clutches before I jump into this head on.

[3400-95-Modified]

good luck and let me know how you make out fitting in 65e parts... I know Jeff from EP does that but he machines some stuff to work, so I'm not positive on what is a direct drop in part.

[yeyo_racing]

3400-95-Modified you are correct

I contacted Jeff from EP and mentioned he does need to do some machining in order to fit the parts. He also does some valvebody mods for 2nd and 3rd. He sells the 4t60/4t65-e hybrid trans with EP LSD and your choice of final drive ratio and stall speed for $3000.

I think it's a good price for all the work and parts included. Unfortunately it's out of my budget for this year, maybe next year I can jump into it. Shipping it down here it's going to be a whole different story .

I think for now I'm going to try the Stage-1 clutch kit but with Kolene steels. I read these tolerate heat a lot better than regular steels. I also read that some installers scotch brite the Kolene steels to clean up some.

I'm planning to do this on July along with piston re-ring, which is another story. I'll let you know how it works out.

[3400-95-Modified]

Where did you find the Kolene steels? I'd be willing to try them as well if I need to next year. This year its staying together...

[yeyo_racing]

You can't buy the Kolene steels for all the clutch packs as a module. Alto sells a steel module, but only includes Kolene on the 2nd clutch pack. However, Alto does sells their clutch modules with Kolene steels on all 4 clutch packs.

I found this guy on ebay that sells an Alto Master kit that includes the Kolene steels. I'm going to buy that kit and toss the Alto frictions and use the Raybestos Stage-1. I know that it's probably going to cost me more in the end but that's my only option at this point.

http://stores.ebay.com/CT-POWERTRAIN-PRODUCTS?_trksid=p4340.l2563

[yeyo_racing]

Well I gave CT Powertrain a call to confirm if the Alto kit came with the Kolene steels and he assured me they weren't. I thought they were since they look different that regular steels accoridng to the picture; they have that peculiar Kolene process color.

I'll keep diggin around to see what I find.

[3400-95-Modified]

The factory steels are pretty tough, and I would also think the Raybestos ones are comparable to the Stage 1 clutches in toughness... I'm using a combination of the two... Right now I used the stock ones in the input pack and the 4th gear due to some issues I had with my set, and I think the 2nd pack is all Raybestos.

[yeyo_racing]

Does the Stage-1 module comes with the steels as well? Or is it only the frictions?

[3400-95-Modified]

only frictions, but wittrans sells the steels individually and in a module IIRC... I'd have to double check.

84139B is the kit for the 440-t4 trans, mine is 84139EA

Its listed as a steel module, so it sounds like it should have everything needed.

[yeyo_racing]

Perfect, thanks for the info! I will be ordering the Friction and Steel modules from WIT Trans and purchase a banner kit and the bands locally.

BTW, I found a company that performes the Kolene process on transmission steels. If we gather enough people we can get lower prices.

H & M Metal Processing Company

http://www.handmmetal.com/

I read about it on this forum thread. http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showt...t=45411&page=2

[3400-95-Modified]

My company here sends stuff out for black Nitride treatment... I wonder if I could slip a pack of steels in with it... LOL