Need help 4t60e

[3400-95-Modified]

I've never tested a torque converter that way... but some shops yes will re-use it unless its part of the rebuild, you would see the extra charge on your bill since they aren't free.

What position was the TC in when you tested it?

Did you have any material in the pan of the transmission either? Depending on what parts they used you could have a low roller sprag going out which would cause some noises and quite possibly some shuddering when accelerating. Unfortunately that requires you to did into the trans to find that.

There is no B&M shift kit for our cars, OR any real performance shift kit for it. The only one out there is a shift CORRECTION kit. It simply changes some things to prevent common issues/failures. It will help firm up the shifts a little, but as noted the only way to do that is to shim the accumulators.

[BLADE]

well i found out just what you said no b&m tc or shift kit i thought that i might have seen difrent tc over at tranny usa I will keep checking. Autozone had one they said. According to this book i was supposed to drain the TC and turn it splined side up and spin the second set of splines in with a set of large snap ring pliers check for noise should be none and resistance counterclockwise but free spin clockwise. I guess the second set of splines in is the stator spline. the stator is one way clutch. there was also a endplay check but i didnt do that one yet. i think im going to replace the TC and see what happens. my stator spun both ways easily except when you could hear it drag and make noise then it was a little ruff turnig. HOW do you guys check a tourque converter this is my first one wish i had a new one to compare it to. this TC i have is stock with 250,000 on it. and the fluid in the TC was really dirty coming out but no chunks in the pan very little metal in fluid magnet didnt look like a chia pet ok i guess kinda expected worse

[3400-95-Modified]

well i found out just what you said no b&m tc or shift kit i thought that i might have seen difrent tc over at tranny usa I will keep checking. Autozone had one they said. According to this book i was supposed to drain the TC and turn it splined side up and spin the second set of splines in with a set of large snap ring pliers check for noise should be none and resistance counterclockwise but free spin clockwise. I guess the second set of splines in is the stator spline. the stator is one way clutch. there was also a endplay check but i didnt do that one yet. i think im going to replace the TC and see what happens. my stator spun both ways easily except when you could hear it drag and make noise then it was a little ruff turnig. HOW do you guys check a tourque converter this is my first one wish i had a new one to compare it to. this TC i have is stock with 250,000 on it. and the fluid in the TC was really dirty coming out but no chunks in the pan very little metal in fluid magnet didnt look like a chia pet ok i guess kinda expected worse

I've never had to check a TC... I had one that I thought got full of metal so I sent it back to PDQ to have them take it apart and check to ensure it was clean, but that was a converter they built before.

You can use any 4t60e converter that existed its just the stall that will make driving different. I used a 2095 stall for a long time and it works just fine, and is a bit nicer over the 1650 stock. It's a FD9B converter.

[RedZMonte]

"3400-95-Modified" knows his stuff when it comes to these trannies. I built mine based upon his recommendation and couldnt be happier. I did have a custom converter made ~3000 stall and love it.. Launches and spools my turbo like a mad man.

S

[BLADE]

thanks 3400-95-modifid i wrote that code down. at checker auto they had a couple that fit my senero FJ9B with around the same 2095 stall havent found one that stalled at 1630 i read that was stock on a link earlyier in this thread and i think the TC code from the vin decoder i got off this site before said it was aFG9B. Everything looked the same as far as fit between the two that they had at parts store. I will try to get that exact number. I feel alot better about the coding after reading your post 3400-95-modifid. thanks i was starting to stress about the code no worries now. The guy did say it was a ECCC code that i needed is this what the code is called. The only other thing that I can think of that would make noise stopped in gear at idle would be the oil pump but it did shift fine to all gears{ a little shudder in gear at idle stopped} is there a way to check the oil pump with the tranny out. I know that I should have done this before i took it apart. Do these oil pumps fail often could this be part of the problem just throwing it out there.

[BLADE]

http://www.bulkpart.comhas anyone got tranny parts from makco distributing

[3400-95-Modified]

Yes I have bought a few items from Bulkpart as well. They have good stuff, as long as you know what your looking for.

also some info on torque converter codes, and trans info

Front-Wheel Drive Transmissions

4T40-E / 4T45-E

FWD 4-speed automatic with overdrive
187 lbs transaxle weight filled
Gear Ratios:
1st -- 2.960
2nd -- 1.626
3rd -- 1.000
4th -- 0.681
Rev -- 2.143
Final Drive Ratios: 3.05, 3.29
Available Chain Ratios: 35/35, 33/37, 32/38


4T60-E

FWD 4-speed automatic with overdrive
Dry: 178 lb.
Wet: 201 lb.
Gear Ratios:
1st -- 2.921
2nd -- 1.568
3rd -- 1.000
4th -- 0.705
Rev -- 2.385
Final Drive Ratios: 2.84, 3.06, 3.33
Available Chain Ratios: 35/35, 37/33, 28/27, 33/37

Fluid Capacity (Approximate):
Bottom Pan Removal: 7.0L (7.4 qt)
Complete Overhaul: 9.5L (10.0 qt)
Dry: 12.7L (13.4 qt)

Maximum Engine Torque:
280 lb-ft (380 Nm)

Maximum Gearbox Torque:
400 lb-ft (544 Nm)


4T65-E -- click here for Application ID charts

FWD 4-speed automatic with overdrive
214 lbs transaxle weight filled
Gear Ratios:
1st -- 2.921
2nd -- 1.568
3rd -- 1.000
4th -- 0.705
Rev -- 2.385
Final Drive Ratios: 2.84, 3.06, 3.33
Available Chain Ratios: 35/35, 37/33, 33/37


4T80-E

FWD 4-speed automatic with overdrive
293 lbs transaxle weight filled
Gear Ratios:
1st -- 2.960
2nd -- 1.626
3rd -- 1.000
4th -- 0.681
Rev -- 2.130
Final Drive Ratios: 2.84, 3.11, 3.48, 3.71




GM FWD Torque Converters

GM uses the same type 4-digit ID method of identifying FWD torque converters as with the RWD units, however the digits have different meanings. All 125-C, 440-T4, 4T60, and 4T60-E transmissions use the same style torque converter, and they are interchangeable before 1996. 1996-up converters are built to be compatible with GM's PWM TCC apply strategy which means that you can use the newer converter on the older trans, but not the older converter on the newer trans.

1st Digit (application trans)

F -- 125C, 440-T4, 4T60, 4T60-E (245mm)
J -- 4T65-E HD (258mm)
2nd Digit (approx stall (depends on engine)

A -- 2795 rpm
B -- 2560 rpm
C -- 2385 rpm
D -- 2095 rpm
E -- 1865 rpm
G -- 1630 rpm
H -- 1515 rpm
J -- 2060 rpm
K -- 2760 rpm
L -- 1895 rpm
M -- 1525 rpm
Y -- 1420 rpm
Z -- 2375 rpm
3rd Digit (TCC clutch material)

0 -- Clutch omitted by factory
5 -- Clutch contains poppet valves
All other digits (pre 1996):

Red Fiber material
1996-97

C, E, H, K, P -- Carbon filled clutch
1998-up

F, H, K, Q -- Woven graphite clutch
4th Digit (Clutch Type)

B -- standard
C -- viscous


Pertaining to the TCC Clutch material: starting in 1996, GM implemented a new TCC apply strategy. The 1996-97 trannys (exc 3T40), used a soft-apply (PWM) TCC strategy which was designed to soften the TCC apply so the "customer" would not feel it come on. This means that the PCM is actually making the TCC slip during apply. Only Carbon clutch torque converters should be used in 1996-97 trannys. You can use the carbon clutch TC's in earlier trannys that did not have PWM technology, however the lockup feel will not be the same. However, I have heard that these carbon clutches rarely burn-up or go bad. I have personally used the carbon filled clutch TC's on earlier trannys and the only experience I have witnessed with them is they apply firmer.

Starting in 1998, GM revised the lock-up strategy once again only this time the TCC may never completely lock up and may always slip about 20-60 rpm, depending on the vehicle. This means that even the carbon clutch units would not work well for these applications thus GM started using woven-graphite TC clutch material. I have heard that the woven graphite TC's should not be used in any earlier transmissions because the lockup will not work correctly.


This information should be used as a reference guide only. Please consult your local dealership or transmission shop for your specific application and needs.

[robertisaar]

some of the info is a bit inaccurate and incomplete....

example being that GM has been using PWM torque converters in the 4T60E since 1991 in certain applications.

and the "constant slip" stuff? it wasn't mentioned that it was primarily to reduce any kind of vehicle lurch during throttle transitions.

[3400-95-Modified]

That little section of info was stuff I found online somewhere... I am unsure of its truth.

[robertisaar]

well, it's largely correct, i just pointed out a few things i knew were incorrect....

i have a good idea of how the 60E maximum engine torque was come up with as well(hint: what engine made the most torque while connected to a 60E? matches perfectly)

[BLADE]

thats the best thing i have seen yet to help understand the meanings of these codes on the torque converters you guys rock i really owe you one very little info in my book on tc codes i feel good ordering one from bulk part. i came up with FG9B stock [1630 stall] if i go with a FD9B [2095 stall] will it RUN ok this car is stock no preformance mods and none planned just going to be my everyday driver i like its good mpg 32-34 mpg always did ok i thought for a 3.1

[3400-95-Modified]

well, it's largely correct, i just pointed out a few things i knew were incorrect....

i have a good idea of how the 60E maximum engine torque was come up with as well(hint: what engine made the most torque while connected to a 60E? matches perfectly)

I should see how much torque my car is making... because it's still holding up And was even with stock clutches.

The FD9B will run fine in it... I had that stall in my DD Beretta for over 75k miles.

[gpse3400]

thanks 3400-95-modifid i wrote that code down. at checker auto they had a couple that fit my senero FJ9B with around the same 2095 stall havent found one that stalled at 1630 i read that was stock on a link earlyier in this thread and i think the TC code from the vin decoder i got off this site before said it was aFG9B. Everything looked the same as far as fit between the two that they had at parts store. I will try to get that exact number. I feel alot better about the coding after reading your post 3400-95-modifid. thanks i was starting to stress about the code no worries now. The guy did say it was a ECCC code that i needed is this what the code is called. The only other thing that I can think of that would make noise stopped in gear at idle would be the oil pump but it did shift fine to all gears{ a little shudder in gear at idle stopped} is there a way to check the oil pump with the tranny out. I know that I should have done this before i took it apart. Do these oil pumps fail often could this be part of the problem just throwing it out there.

The pump bearings can fail as a result of wear on the pump shaft.If you tear out the pump you should replace the pump shaft support bearing and pump shaft.

If the stator roller clutch did not hold the car wouldn't be moving that much if at all. When you rotate the stator splines try not to rotate it against the converter.

[BLADE]

well I went ahead and ordered a FD9B[2095stall] torque converter from bulk part today 203.00 with shipping. Im glad I had all you guys help on this this was not a part that is readily advalible at most auto part stores I would tell them I needed a torque converter and some would still ask if it was a standard or automatic tranny. Bulk part seemed to be a good place to get some of this tranny stuff.

gpse3400 what do you mean when rotating the stator splines try not to rotate it against the converter??

I think you mean not to push down to hard while rotating the stator spline in the converter. I have never messed with one of these so not real shure what to look for. I already ordered a new one but would love to learn a good way to check these for in the future.

[BLADE]

when you guys install a new torque converter do you try and fill it up a bit with tranny fluid before you slide it on the transmission imput shaft. or will it fill up fast on its own. Just didnt want to burn it up before it fills up.