Spoke too soon! Upgrades? 4T60-E

[RedZMonte]

Well about a week ago i was talking about how lucky i am with my tranny lasting ~147,000 Miles (turboed for ~60,000 of them)... Well about an hour ago i was merging into traffic and i lost all gears... No Forward, no reverse and have a shitty noise inside the tranny...

Anyone make stranger/upgraded parts for the 4T60-E? I heard raybestos makes beefier clutches, what about hard parts?

S

[RedZMonte]

Here is the information from raybestos, PG 62

http://www.raybestospowertrain.com/pdf/catalogs/raybestos_catalog.pdf

Nice diagram and stuff of the 4T60/65

http://www.transparts.ru/pdf/4t60e_04.pdf

[RedZMonte]

I will just move over to this post... same info im looing for

http://60degreev6.com/forum/f103/4t60e-performance-rebuild-kit-t45950

[3400-95-Modified]

Ok, I know you also replied in my thread, but lets also keep this one going so you can show others out there what happened to your trans and what stock parts failed.

Things I want to know first are, What year is the trans? And what part failed inside.

I'm guessing one of two... Either the low roller blew up like mine (BUT I had 1st and 2nd when that happened, so being out all gears it may not be that)... OR the reverse reaction shell exploded like a potato or stripped the teeth right off the end of it...

This is what happens to the teeth on a stock shell just over 74k miles


The new ones are hardened. I actually wore out my 2nd drum this time around, but that may have also been started before I did the first rebuild and with the hardened one it just exaggerated it.

www.wittrans.com seems to have a lot of the 4t60e hard parts too, and VERY reasonable prices, but at the same time you can sometime score a full rotating assy from a used 4t60e on e-bay for 80-100 bux. I've seen the planet assy, and final drive assy's and such up there for about 40-50 a set so if you get the two sides, OR contact them direct, I'm sure they can hook you up with any parts you need.

I have not heard back from wittrans the first time I sent them an e-mail, but I was trying to ask them if the stage 1 clutch kit that they list was in fact a Raybestos part, and not some knock off, but I'm sure it is since raybestos is the only one who makes the clutches in stage 1 form, and the WIT part number is listed on Raybestos's clutch list for their stage one fiber kit.

Unfortunately the only "hardened" improved parts are the 4th clutch hub, and the reverse shell... I don't know of any other parts out there that have been improved over stock... since really those don't break often. If you have a 95 or older trans though, I will strongly recommend getting a 96+ final drive setup, low roller sprag and reaction shell to replace the 95 and older style that fails more often.

[IsaacHayes]

Mine has over 200k. I'm not turboed but I'm not easy on it. City driving, and sees WOT/downshifts all the time. Aside from having to put seal conditioner in there so it would go into gear when cold, and bouncing off the rev limiter on the 1-2 shift when cold (probably seal related as well) it does ok. Although the 1-2 shit doesn't snap your head back like it used to.

Defiantly post up carnage pics.

[3400-95-Modified]

I'm willing to bet you have broken accumulator springs, and a badly worn valve body, and you just got lucky and it cleaned out some of what was causing it to stick. Delayed shifts and poor shifts are not caused by seals... that will be slipping.

[pocket-rocket]

No Forward, no reverse and have a shitty noise inside the tranny...

S

Do you still have park? Does the speedo go up while sitting still when you put it in gear? Is it leaking tranny fluid like a sieve?

The one time mine went out, it was the diff. The spider gear pin grenaded and tore the diff cover a new one causing the leak, plus the spiders came out which gave me no movement forward or back and disconnected the trans from the tires so park didn't work. This would also allow the trans internals to spin when in gear and sound really really bad when put in park because they were still moving when the park awl tried to engage. I don't know near as much as 3400-95-Modified about these trannies, but I do know what mine did and how it acted.

[3400-95-Modified]

I think he would know if he blew up his difff and took out his dif cover... LOL, that would have made one hell of a puddle.

When I lunched the 1-2 low roller, it sounded like there were marbles in my trans when it tried to use third gear, as I noted first and second still worked so I was able to get home, but I destroyed a few parts inside GOOD... then my most recent failure was missing a shim which allowed a bearing to get wedged and then burn up, which deposited all its rollers into my final drive ring and in the way of the differential planet gears... that made one hell of a noise too... LOL, killed the diff and planets, and took one tooth out of the final drive ring. That was a good one, but I was still able to get home... a 20 min ride at that...

I have yet to kill a reverse shell, but I've been told they blow up like a baked potato and just rip in half and tear apart bad... But I do not know if it leaves you high and dry totally or not. It very well may.

[RedZMonte]

I it sounded like there were marbles in my trans

the trans is a 1995 (stock trans that came in the car) ... no fluid, no visable carnage just no gears forward or rev. and sounds like you mentioned... Marbles in the trans... it sound more like something on the drivers side of the engine bay, trans side not diff side..) I know the 3800 guys break chains in the 65's you think that could be possible? well its at my mechanics shop i will have to wait and see what it looks like..

S

[3400-95-Modified]

there are two individual chains in the 65e that are thinner, the 60e is on single much wider, and I would only assume harder to break, I've heard of 65e guys swapping to a performance single chain over the dual setup. I would be leaning more toward the reverse shell by the sounds of it.

[gpse3400]

If you have reverse and no forward gears and noise you probably blew out the 1/2 Forward Support Roller Clutch. It should be noiser when you put it in drive.

[3400-95-Modified]

If you have reverse and no forward gears and noise you probably blew out the 1/2 Forward Support Roller Clutch. It should be noiser when you put it in drive.

May not be true, Thats what I blew up in my first trans and I only lost third gear. I cracked the internal roller race clear in half.

Years later I also went dragracing with a 1-2 roller clutch support that had blown out springs and was rattling and grabbing when it should have been. I used a stock replacement sprag and thats my fault, that was my first rebuild I did on my own on my red car, the BorgWarner one is re-designed to prevent the springs from touching the center race and burning out, and the 96+ is totally fixed to solve this issue.

I drag raced on this


I like the 96+ design MUCH better too it's the same setup as the 65e uses.

RedzMonte Look at my Performance Rebuild thread. I included websites and part numbers for all the stuff in my trans and what you can use to do a full rebuild. If other hard parts are needed, www.wittrans.com lists a lot of them for sale at reasonable prices as I noted before, but you can also find pulls on e-bay.

[IsaacHayes]

I had done a trans flush (complete) and the problem did not get better. Later I put that seal conditioner in there and about 200miles before when it said it would work the problem was solved. _shrug_

Maybe when I feel like it I will drop the pan and shim the accumulators and replace any broke springs and also check the oil diff tube.

Hmm. Broken spring could very well cause a weak 2-1 down shift... But how come it doesn't bounce off the limiter and shifts perfect once the trans is warm?

[gpse3400]

May not be true, Thats what I blew up in my first trans and I only lost third gear. I cracked the internal roller race clear in half.

Years later I also went dragracing with a 1-2 roller clutch support that had blown out springs and was rattling and grabbing when it should have been. I used a stock replacement sprag and thats my fault, that was my first rebuild I did on my own on my red car, the BorgWarner one is re-designed to prevent the springs from touching the center race and burning out, and the 96+ is totally fixed to solve this issue.

I drag raced on this


I like the 96+ design MUCH better too it's the same setup as the 65e uses.

RedzMonte Look at my Performance Rebuild thread. I included websites and part numbers for all the stuff in my trans and what you can use to do a full rebuild. If other hard parts are needed, www.wittrans.com lists a lot of them for sale at reasonable prices as I noted before, but you can also find pulls on e-bay.

Well if the input diode blew then you wouldn't have anything, 3rd diode- no 3rd gear, Reverse reaction Drum- no reverse or 2nd... eitherway it needs to be torn down.

[RedZMonte]

got the call, reaction shell stripped out..im gunna go check it out. he also said my trans has the updated sprags...