How to ID my transmission?

[Schmieder]

I need to know where to look to ID my automatic transmission.

I have a 96 GP and I should have the 4T60-e. But, the transmission was replaced 3 years ago under the previous owner. So there is a poss. of changing to a stronger trans.

Now, I was told the 4T60-e will not be able to adjust line pressure via Force Motor Current tables due to a lack of hardware...this is where it gets interesting....

When I reduced the Positive FMC by 10% I encountered a much more firm shift. It was clearly obvious and not a mistake, the trans was much firmer and really had a strong shift. So I can not have a 4t60-e, it would be impossible to make changes through the FMC tables and notice it clearly.

It may be entirely possible I have a 4t65? This is why I need to ID this tranny. And believe me, this will come as a pleasant surprise. Since I have a turbo now, having a 4t65 will be a blessing, lol.

[3400-95-Modified]

Should be a metal tag on the passenger side of the tail shaft. with 3 large letters. Post them up.

Also where is your electrical connector for the trans controls.

a 65e is in this location


a 60e is in this location,




You also stated before you have a Vac modulator, a 65e does not have one of those.

Hate to burst the bubble...

also a 60e will not be as consistant as a 65e with shifts since it is variable due to vac line pressures... so you may have just felt a fluke shift... Sometimes I'll get one thats firmer than before.

[Schmieder]

Should be a metal tag on the passenger side of the tail shaft. with 3 large letters. Post them up.

Also where is your electrical connector for the trans controls.

a 65e is in this location


a 60e is in this location,




You also stated before you have a Vac modulator, a 65e does not have one of those.

Hate to burst the bubble...

also a 60e will not be as consistant as a 65e with shifts since it is variable due to vac line pressures... so you may have just felt a fluke shift... Sometimes I'll get one thats firmer than before.

Ehh, no bubble bursted, I'de rather know the facts straight up.

This very interesting though, I can be very confident it was not a fluke shift. I drove this car for years and I can clearly feel the difference by adjusting the tables back and forth. If there was no work done to the tranny I'de say for sure a 4t60-e and I'm loosing my mind or I'm high from an exhaust leak. But the old tranny was ripped out and rebuilt or replaced. The old one was burnt from excessive punishment. The previous owner said I shouldn't have that problem again.

Now, is there a tranny I might have that can adjust FMC through the PCM and also have a vac modulator? I did melt the vac line to the tranny modulator during the first few drives and since replaced it with a new line part metal but noticed no shifting differences when it was melted into two. Could I have 4t65 guts in a 4t60 housing?

I know these are strange questions to ask but my situation is perplexing.

EDIT: I pulled the vacuum line to the trans modulator and drove around the block. No noticable changes there.

The engine did come from a 97 Beretta a few years back before the tranny rebuilt/replace. Is it possible the 97 Beretta used a different auto trans then the 4t60-e? Or I have different guts?

I admit I know next to nothing but the very basics about the detailed workings of an automatic trans.

My tranny looks like the 4t60-e in the photos you provided, and I would believe it but the FMC tables don't make sense at all being effective like that.

Should be a metal tag on the passenger side of the tail shaft. with 3 large letters. Post them up.

I'll do that with in the hour, thanks

[3400-95-Modified]

EDIT: I pulled the vacuum line to the trans modulator and drove around the block. No noticable changes there.

The engine did come from a 97 Beretta a few years back before the tranny rebuilt/replace. Is it possible the 97 Beretta used a different auto trans then the 4t60-e? Or I have different guts?

I admit I know next to nothing but the very basics about the detailed workings of an automatic trans.

My tranny looks like the 4t60-e in the photos you provided, and I would believe it but the FMC tables don't make sense at all being effective like that.



I'll do that with in the hour, thanks

Well there's your problem... You have an engine from a non existent car... This is why I'll also not believe the statement the previous owner made of never having a problem again.

Beretta's were ended in 96. And I highly doubt that you have pressure controls, since the 4t60e case valve body and pump configuration just will not allow those items to be installed or function at all.

What table are you editing?

[IsaacHayes]

The tables may be there as that PCM might have functions to control a 65-e even if that particular year never had one in a vehicle. There are things in OBDI bin files that were never enabled. Some pretty neat things.

[pocket-rocket]

There are things in OBDI bin files that were never enabled. Some pretty neat things.

Like lean cruise

[Schmieder]

Well there's your problem... You have an engine from a non existent car... This is why I'll also not believe the statement the previous owner made of never having a problem again.

Beretta's were ended in 96. And I highly doubt that you have pressure controls, since the 4t60e case valve body and pump configuration just will not allow those items to be installed or function at all.

What table are you editing?

My fault, it had to be 96 then. The previous owner was a great friend at the time. I rode in the car many times before I bought it. Ehh, mistaken year, lol.

Now, the tranny issue is real. He did have it rebuilt/replaced. I remember when he needed a ride around town while the work was being done. I even had the reciept in the glove box when I bought it but I haven't a clue where it is now. He did say he had it fixed where it wouldn't break like it did the first time around. I remember he spent around $2,500 for the trans work.

btw, did 96 Berettas have a 4t60-e?

And 3400-95-Modified, you don't have to believe me, it won't effect me either way. And it certainly won't change what I know what is. And I mean that regarding the history of the car. I still admit I am new to the workings of transmissions.

Point blank, rebuilt engine from a Beretta obviously 96 or earlier. Unsure if the trans came with the block or not. Transmission was rebuilt 3 years ago, approx cost $2.5k and was upgraded but I haven't a clue what that was. And the past friend is no longer in my life. People change and we don't get along anymore.

So I ask, is the 96 GP limited to the 4t60-e and the 4t65-e autos or are there other trannies that could have been installed?

I'll try to get the info from the tag tomorrow. It was a bit windy today and I didn't want to be under the car on jacks with a possibility of a strong wind gust. Probably would have been ok but you never know, safety first.

I am altering Force Motor Current tables, specifically the positive tables. Subtracting 10%, drive, add 10%, drive, repeat.

[IsaacHayes]

Beretta's had 3100's and 4T60-Es from 94-96.

I'm sure you have a 60-e if you have a vacuum modulator. 65-e do not have one. I'd go with an adjustable one, if you are not noticing a change when removing the vacuum to it, yours might be worn out. An adjustable one for a TH-350/400/PG will work and you can turn up the pressure some.

I don't see how the adjustment in the PCM is doing anything. Only electronics are telling the trans to engage the shift solenoids or PWM the TCC.

[Schmieder]

Beretta's had 3100's and 4T60-Es from 94-96.

I'm sure you have a 60-e if you have a vacuum modulator. 65-e do not have one. I'd go with an adjustable one, if you are not noticing a change when removing the vacuum to it, yours might be worn out. An adjustable one for a TH-350/400/PG will work and you can turn up the pressure some.

I don't see how the adjustment in the PCM is doing anything. Only electronics are telling the trans to engage the shift solenoids or PWM the TCC.

Yeah, it's probably all in my head but I swear I feel a difference in adjusting the force motor current tables. But Occam's Razor defines I have a 4t60-e and I'll remain in that logic until I can ID the trans later today from the tag.

TH-350/400/PG Adjustable Modulator, thanks!

[IsaacHayes]

Pioneer is the brand I got. There is a red and a black stripe one. I think I got the black one, not sure what others use.

[3400-95-Modified]

Ok two things. I did not mean any disrespect to the one who sold you the car. From my understanding it sounds like he had someone else doing the work for him which could result in THAT individual blowing smoke up his ass and him not knowing. There are also two other things that could have been done to a 4t60e to prevent a possible failure he did have... If the reverse reaction shell exploded on him they could have replaced that with a hardened one... thats one way for him to think the failure will never happen again, Also the 4th hub could have stripped out, another thing that could have been replaced with a hardened part. Either way I did not mean to make you think he was the liar but he may have just been told false info.

And second if you have a vac modulator on the front of your trans which you have stated multiple times that you do and even listed part number/description, then there is no need to still be leary on what trans you have. It's a 4t60e end of story, doesn't matter what the tag says, the most you'll get from that will be the ORIGINAL final drive ratio, and the torque converter stall... Which both of those could have been changed when getting serviced. For your sake I would hope so too, because the L-body has a SHITTY final drive ratio, and a very low stall converter... both of which would have hurt performance of your car if they were just swapped over from a beretta as is... unless of course only the engine was swapped and the trans was infact just rebuilt.

[Schmieder]

...

I understand, it's not easy sometimes communicating with just text.

Well, I found the receipt from the trans rebuild and the engine swap.

It was Aamco that did the trans work and here is a list of what was done. Btw, it says 4t60e so yeah.

new assembly kit transtar #K6600E-LS
new filter - multi-lip seal design (..8..)
new modulator universal
new band 1st and 2nd
new band reverse (latest type lining)
new band forward (maji)
exchange torque converter
new bushing case
new sprag input assembly
new plate channel
new case
new shell
new boost valve

As I said before, I am new to trans stuff so I really don't know what all that service included. It seems pretty comprehensive though. I got a hold of the guy I bought it from and he said he had stronger parts put in.

The engine was remanufactured. The donor was the Beretta. New rings, pistons, bearings, ect...typical quality reman.

The trans has 37k miles on it and the engine has 62k miles on it, according to the odometer readings when serviced.

[IsaacHayes]

That engine is still a pup.. I bought my car in 1999 with 104,000 on the clock and have more than doubled that mileage with in town daily driving.

New pistons, I wonder if it was bored out some, or they were changed due to scuffing from piston slap.

On the trans rebuild, new case/shell... I wonder if they just took your old as a core and gave you a different one that was rebuilt?

[Schmieder]

That engine is still a pup.. I bought my car in 1999 with 104,000 on the clock and have more than doubled that mileage with in town daily driving.

New pistons, I wonder if it was bored out some, or they were changed due to scuffing from piston slap.

On the trans rebuild, new case/shell... I wonder if they just took your old as a core and gave you a different one that was rebuilt?

The trans I don't know. All I know is what the receipt says and that goes the same for the previous owner.

Now I know why my cylinder bore was 90mm and not 89mm. When I had the heads off I checked for any oval due to wear. It was 90mm all the way around.

Young engine yes. I see you take care of your engine like nearly every regular here. It is such a shame when I know someone who just refuses to check/change fluids. I learned an engine can go a LONG way if the fluids, filters and other replaceables are properly maintained. In example, my car is at 108k miles. I know the engine is much younger but who knows if the o2 sensor and coil packs were carried over along with other sensors/ect. So I replaced the o2b1, coil packs, spark plugs, cables, filters, gaskets, mufflers/resonator, radiator, water pump, ECT sensor, TPS sensor, IAT sensor, cleaned the MAF...

Used seafoam in the crankcase, fuel tank and sucked it in via several vacuum hoses.

The Plenum and LIM was cleaned through out with a funky brush and foaming degreaser.

Most of that was before the turbo build. After cleaning things up and getting the engine running smoother, I decided to turbo it for many reasons.

Now my 100k servicing is done.

Due to the turbo install, I plan to change the oil every 1k miles. Overkill in a way, but it is better to be clean then dirty and isn't that expensive to change every 1k miles.

I just changed the PS fluid and brake fluid as well a few weeks ago. This way I can say every fluid was changed out at the same time, even the trans fluid which was expensive.

I plan to have a 2-bar map sensor soon so I can run w/o the MAF. Then I can reinstall the lines for PCV system, emissions.

Yep, this car has a good owner.

[robertisaar]

I plan to have a 2-bar map sensor soon so I can run w/o the MAF. Then I can reinstall the lines for PCV system, emissions.

this could porobably go in your trans tuning thread, but oh well.

does OBD2 reference the MAP for a barometer reading at start-up? if so, with a 2-BAR, it will be seeing ~50kPa or less... could effect a few things the way it would with OBD1.