Any T5 with VSS for MGB swap?

[SappySE107]

Sounds good. As long as the starter can be in the right place, the stock gauges can work (older T5 compatible?), and I can attach something to give the ECM a VSS signal that I can tune (no experience changing these settings to non factory).

[geoffinbc]

You don't need to worry about the dual pocket bell housing. If I remember right you can use a 2.2L bell housing and bolt on the T5 with ford pattern. Using a late model T5 is nice because you can get the WC version which if sourced from the mustang is capable of 275lbs of torque at a 5000LB GVW. Yet this strength still comes in at the same 75lbs of a NWC T5.

[CNCguy]

Started a reply earlier and forgot to finish it. Mack has been driving it for around a week but it didn't run right on the stock chip or one of the ones for the 3400. Part of the problem may have been since he is using 3500 injectors. He said that it had great power to 3500RPM then flattened off there. I think he was kind of disappointed with the swap at that point. But after it was tuned he had a grin from ear to ear. He had it tuned by Ryan Gick (sp?). I guess we will hear how it works when he gets back from Vegas in a couple of weeks. Mack did say that he got 32MPG on a 150 mile trip on Monday with it un-tuned.

[Scott_68B]

Sounds good. As long as the starter can be in the right place, the stock gauges can work (older T5 compatible?), and I can attach something to give the ECM a VSS signal that I can tune (no experience changing these settings to non factory).

I would try to find a WC T5 as mentioned earlier. I've adapted the driven gear on mine to work with the VSS tail housing so I can use a cable to drive the speedo. I can confirm this works with the NWC tranny at least. I'll get a pic of what I'm talking about over the next couple of days...it's pretty minor.

I've attached a spreadsheet (not my design) to help you play around with different transmission ratios. I believe the ratios for the V6 tranny are what are in my car but I haven't confirmed that. This might help you decide on which tranny to go for.

-- Scott

[BMC]

Sappy,

The 93 and later T5 for 3.4 and 3.8L V6 motors hav ethe Ford bolt pattern on the 'gearbox. The 192_ to 1992 GM vehicles have that wide pattern that everyone and their brother is familiar with. My theory is GM didn't have enough manuals being built and GM and Ford went to one standard pattern- Ford winning the pattern type probably because they sold more but who knows why.

We are also using the TCE cover on this 3500 Non-VVT conversion. CNCGuy- thats your company correct? Its a fantastic looking system and no doubt its going to work great for this conversion.

Dann uses the Ford T5. I am NOT speaking for him, but this is what I understand- The Ford T5 is a little easier to find locally or purchase Brand New! Dann also has a clutch system for those.

I mostly use the GM T5. These can be found easy enough but on occation I do see more Ford T5 units available and fewer people trying to use them outside of the standard application. That GM T5 is overly used in street rods and so on and people abuse them behind 500+ BHP/500Tq big bore/stroke V8s. We have a few different clutch systems- S10, our own HTOB system and even an HTOB system that can be fitted to the Ford T5. The V6 T5 has very nice wide ratios which make a nice setup for someone with less than 250 BHP and a WIDE power curve as the majority of 60 Degree V6 motors have. If we were dealing with either a STOCK 3.909 to 1 MGB rear end AND/OR a peaky 2.0L I4 with 200BHP and 150 Tq that ramps up fast on power drops off just as fast, the closer ratio T5 that starts with a 2.95 to 1 1st gear would be a better system.

BTW: I have access to a plate that a person can purchase to use a dual pocket F-body bellhousing with a Ford T5 gearbox.

Choices for the T5 'box? LOTS!!! Costs vary on what you want and where you purchase.

Give me a call sometime and I'll talk your ear off about gear ratios in the MGB's various bellhousings, clutch systems and so on.

-BMC.

[BMC]

Thanks BMC

Way to make someone feel welcome, even if it wasn't directed to me or if it was, nice going - good attitude in helping those whom you think are not in your league. Either way you suck!

Nope, the 78XX post comment was to Sappy. He, along with others here are more helpful then I could ever hope to be. I spend most of my time elsewhere doing the same Q and A's as here but 86.2% of what goes on over there is about the MGB GM 660 conversion. I pop up here about twice a year for about two months at a time. Kudos to those who are so helpful here and everywhere!

I did mean to get something out to you but time did not allow. I actaully want to know more about your car. Besides for doing quite a bit with the GM 660, we have had an Alpine conversion in here for a while, albeit a Ford 2.8 660.

Anyways, I just don't see a post by you explaining all the bits and pieces and am quite interested in your project too! Sorry for the misunderstanding.

-BMC.

[BMC]

Betterthanyou,

I have a 3400 in the shop, a 2.2L bellhousing attached. As someone else mentioned to me preiously, it looks like you may have to grind one spot by the top corner of the starter (no FWD starter on hand @ the moment) but cannot be absolutely ceertain. If you grind, its best to strengthen this and TIG weld that belhousing back up! Yes, it might be less costly to grind and weld than to purchase the adapter plate if you have access to the welder yourself or can get it rewelded for free.


Scott 68B,

Although the WC is a little nicer than the NWC, people think the NWC is terrible. Its not. I have had plenty and they work and shift fine. Over the longhaul, the shifting might be slightly easier on the WC, but the original 'boxes are pretty nice. Also a cable driven VSS can always be purchased of various pulse types.

The Ford T5 WC started a year earlier than GM got the WC. I think GM started in 1987 and Ford in '86 (or was that GM=88 and FoMoCo=87??)

Also, the 93-95 L32 T5 with the Ford pattern can be switched to the cable drive or different VSS by means of cable driven units. The 95++ 3.8L T5 has the same ratios but a different HTOB system and a VSS that if memory serves, is harder to swap out, but probably a 4000 or 8000 PPM VSS.

-BMC.

[CNCguy]

We are also using the TCE cover on this 3500 Non-VVT conversion. CNCGuy- thats your company correct? Its a fantastic looking system and no doubt its going to work great for this conversion.

Yes Brian... that's me. Thanks and I am sure you will like how it works. We've sold several of these kits in the past six months and everyone has been very pleased with them. Currently, Dann has three fresh swaps on road trips out west, two of which are using the new systems.

TCE has several new products being developed that should spark more interest in 60V6 swaps.

[BMC]

CNCGUY,
I thought I read that quite a while back, try a few years.

Its great to hear about the development of these items. I am Always open to see what others have available and really enjoy working with Dann, yourself, Bill and many others on this board and elsewhere for the promoting of the 60 degree V6. We may be looking into a 3900 swap in 6-12 months if the non-vvt setup can be produced or a simple way of adapting the PCM (or whatever the latest model is called!) ECU from the VVT 3500/3900 can be hacked into quick enough.

For us, a 60 degree V6 is the standard Big block of our world. Sure, you can shove a 302 Ford or a 350 GM motor into one of these cars, but in almost every way, they have too many problems when you do this and the end result is either a horrible cheaply done conversion OR the $50K MG driveline OR the 2,000 hour (driveline alone!) conversion. None of these make sense to me, not that common sense has much to do with conversions but some things need to be thought through clearly.

Our shop is all over the board in what kind of GM 60 degree V6 conversions we will do. One motor you might see carb, the next SFI, alloy head, steel, stock front cover from one motor, TCE the next. Each conversion is as unique as the people on this board and I enjoy seeing the variations and the different opinions Everyone brings here!

Keep up the Great work and Thank You for your products.

-BMC.

[CNCguy]

Thanks for the kind words Brian.

I really need a kick in the ass to get this 3900 assembled and dynoed. The 3900 should be in the 260~300hp range with minimal mods. When combined with all the other benefits of the 60V6 I think it could become a popular swap for the MGs. I keep telling Dann that we need to build a turbo kit. Although it isn't for everyone, I do believe there is a market for one.

Biased yes...... but I do believe the 60V6 is a natural swap for the MGs due to it's size, weight and no major cutting of the vehicle.

[SappySE107]

Ok, I want a 3.23-3.73 rear end, with the camaro/firebird T5 tag number 1352-072, -157, -176, -196, -213. 2.95 1st, 1.94 2nd, 1.34 third, 1.1 4th, .63 5th. The dual starter location bellhousing fits this correct? Clutch setup is something we can buy complete?

What rear end should we go with? Custom drive shaft, probably axles, what about hubs and the rest? We could use the stock rear end but I don't really trust it.

[BMC]

There are proably hundreds of posts on this here:

http://www.mgexperience.net/phorum/list.php?40

Do a search for different key words. I would love to answer, but to get all the information would take a day to retype.

-BMC.

[Scott_68B]

D&D Fabrications recommends a rear end out of an S-10 pickup. These guys really know what they're talking about. I attended the tech session at the last V8 meet and it was VERY informative. This is what I'll be doing when the time comes. There is a great write up on it here:

http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/2007-TechSession6.htm

-- Scott

Forgot to mention that Dan recommended the 3.42:1 gear and posi, which is fairly easy to find.

[SappySE107]

Cool, that sounds about right. I wanted 3.23 to 3.73 with the camaro 2.95-.63 gearing. Id like to find a setup to buy, ready to go. At least for the rear end. I understand the drive shaft needs to be measured for length.

[Scott_68B]

D&D has brand new units, never used, narrowed with all the brackets welded on that will bolt right into a B. They also supply the driveshaft as well. I'm not affiliated with them at all...was just impressed by the presentation they did at the meet.

-- Scott