Domestic Preformance Tranny

[brian89gp]

Since you would know best, why should someone choose the 4t60e over the 4t65e? And then why should they choose a built 4t60e over an Intense 4t65?

[SPEEDYGUY]

Ok this is really subjective. You are asking this question in an interesting way. It seems like you have already made up your mind.

To stay neutral I will rephrase the answer to answer your question without the "opinion" portion and keep to the facts. Then I will share some of what I share with customers who I talk with.

The 4t60-e if already in a car is the better choice because a swap will require more work to accomplish the same result. It might be fun to do and I understand the need to mess with a build. All things equal and your actual goal is just to handle 500hp 3.8l then a 4t65-e or 4t60-e can be made to take on the task nicely.

As for brand names I know that the 4t65-e came stock weaker than the 4t60-e. This is not to say it stays this way once modified by any good shop. The reason behind the 4t65-e movement by gm is the need to upgrade the electronics and to improve the unit for the ?car? use the car is sold for. Remember GM primarily still acts like the old IBM and plays the very conservative big brother who builds for task not for racing performance.

On a observational note:

It looks like you really want a intense transaxle. If this is so then go for it Jeff makes a good unit. I would never want to argue with a person as to their personal need or preference. I also don?t know what kind of HP you will finally be putting through the transaxle. If you will be running 500 or less HP any good shop local or otherwise can access all the same parts found in an intense unit. Just make sure you ask for a nice blue paint and you wont know the difference. I have many customers who I send to local shops because they just don?t need a real bulletproof transaxle. I do tend to push the color jolly Ollie orange though, Something about my old school roots.


Hope this helped

Ty

[brian89gp]

I ditched the 4t60e for a Getrag a while back. Looking at the options I could spend over $1200 on an automatic or $200 for the Getrag. If your 4t60e is indeed stronger then an Intense 4t65e then good for you, I just tend to side with the 4t65e because there are a few hundred of them out there behind 12 second motors holding up just fine.

Stock, why is the 4t65e weaker? All I knew about was the single chain and a slightly better input shaft.

[Lyle's GTP]

[SPEEDYGUY]

I didn?t say the domestic performance 4t60-e was stronger than the 4t65-e built by Jeff. What I said was both (the 4t60 and 4t65) can be made to take on serious hp.

There are quite a few 4t60-e and 4t65-e transaxles out there and all of them are capable of being built for a 12 second or 10-second car for that matter. Actually the Torque converter often used by us is also used in RWD applications taking on 600hp with no problem. The 4t65-e is often made to use the 4t60-e torque converter because it is better and smaller. There was no competition in my response. I did not compare the product I offer to the product intense offers. Just to be 100% clear you created the competition between the two.

The chain is a funny situation.. The whole idea that the transaxle is the sum of some extra strong parts is what is "sold". Actually it?s the way it?s built and how well it?s matched to the application that makes a transaxle a good or even great product.

The chain is not the problem entirely. It?s actually the bearings that start to create the slack needed to break the chain. The same chain we use is used on drag bikes with more than 600hp hammered down on slicks. The chain does not break when balanced correctly or maintained. This is why sometimes even intense has a transaxle break. It comes down to the amount of abuse you can put down before the bearings or other parts wear down to create the slop needed to cause failure. So even the best transaxle will eventually fail if beat on enough.

The days of the 4t60-e or 4t65-e being a special build have long since past. All the parts are attainable and with any good transaxle shop a 400-500hp capable unit can be had. If you want a bulletproof unit with performance in mind or something more exotic like a 4t60-e with 4t65-e electronics or specialized items related to this there is still a specialized market. We also know of steering wheel shifting options that were created by ASG years ago along with the recent availability of a custom push button diff for the person that just has to have the new stuff. Other than the high dollar builds the 4t60-e or 4t65-e are both fairly basic and very much the same unit.


Getreg hmm well they can be alot of fun. Whats your HP goal?

I understand money can be a issue and it is for myself as well..but as much as I hate it the fact is "if you cant afford it its not going to happen".

So a cheaper option is a good idea within the realm of good options but the issue of performance should always come first then pick the cheaper option of the few quality performance options. Otherwise you get to have 5 transaxles you are rebuilding constantly so you can drive your car. As hard as it can be it pays to save the money needed and then make your move.

Ty

[Lyle's GTP]

Well, I'm not sure who you are asking, but since this is my thread I will answer.

I am looking to go up to 500HP safely. But above all else I want the tranny to be rock solid for another 300000 kms with no worries of premature failure. Since there are guys putting 600000 kms on GM auto trannys I don't see why 300000 would be out of reach. Plus I would not be bagging it all the time for fuel consumption reasons. So, 95% of the useage would be easy driving, but mostly stop and go. I don't hit the highway much. Maintainence would not be an issue, I'd have a cooler on it with synthetic fluid and I'd have it flushed/filter changed like every 50000kms for sure. What do you think?

Lyle

[brian89gp]

I'm not sure what I was thinking with those first few posts, but the last couple I just wanted to find out why one over the other. You are the first person I have ever seen go into the details why, before even in this post the 4t60e had just "various parts" while at least the Intense 4t65e listed some of what they did. Maybe its just me, but I need to know why cause I don't trust advertising much.

[phantom505]

Umm.... I guess you just don't get it. What he is trying to say is nothing that Intense has done or does is a secret, any self respecting shop can do it.

If you really want to find out all the neat little things Ty's builder does, put the money down on the table and start talking. He isn't going to give you that information for free.... that's where he makes his money, being the middle man and knowing where to find the hookups...

Don't like that answer? Then don't bother asking the question.

[SPEEDYGUY]

Well, I'm not sure who you are asking, but since this is my thread I will answer.

I am looking to go up to 500HP safely. But above all else I want the tranny to be rock solid for another 300000 kms with no worries of premature failure. Since there are guys putting 600000 kms on GM auto trannys I don't see why 300000 would be out of reach. Plus I would not be bagging it all the time for fuel consumption reasons. So, 95% of the useage would be easy driving, but mostly stop and go. I don't hit the highway much. Maintainence would not be an issue, I'd have a cooler on it with synthetic fluid and I'd have it flushed/filter changed like every 50000kms for sure. What do you think?

Lyle

I will send you a private message with a contact to call in your area ... I know I promised before but I am busy so it takes a long time for free stuff.

Otherwise I can also hook you up with a way to get your unit made by any US shop and sent without having to pay duty.

Ty